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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Green screen with Pro RES 4444

I don't see why not- it's a really sharp looking codec. Then again is anyone putting QuickTime directly onto film? I suspect most film recorders will still need DPX or Cineon frames for the actual recording phase.

Noah
 
It's a sharp looking codec, but I don't understand why you would want to use a compressed codec to do vfx work or a film out, which would need to be DPX anyway.
 
As always cost is an issue. If I can use Pro RES 4444, we can do all our FX in FCP, either before or after the stuff has been color corrected.

Then I can color in COLOR and render 2 K DPX out of there. I would have to get the keylight or primatte plug in (if that is available for FCP).

My Shake seems to be unstable since I upgraded to Leopard. Originally I wanted to do the VFX in Shake off 4 K DPX, but I'm not sure my system can handle that.
 
Jochen Kunstler said:
As always cost is an issue. If I can use Pro RES 4444, we can do all our FX in FCP, either before or after the stuff has been color corrected.

Then I can color in COLOR and render 2 K DPX out of there. I would have to get the keylight or primatte plug in (if that is available for FCP).
Click to expand...

You're worried about image quality holding up for a 2K film recording with that codec, but at the same time you're planning to do visual effects compositing in Final Cut??
 
Move up to Nuke- Shake is dead and buried (officially).

http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/index.aspx

But anyways- if you're asking can I do my post work in ProRes 4444 and then final everything out to DPX for a film out, well that's what it was designed for so I'd say yes. Of course the final image quality is subjective. A lot of folks would insist on staying uncompressed or R3D for the whole run, but I can also see where that's not practical.

I'd do some tests- to see what the look on film is following this route. Also 4444 is very processor and hard drive data rate intensive so you might find it not usable enough to playback with your system, depending on its capabilities of course.

Noah
 
I'll do some tests. I'm certainly aware of the fact that doing the FX from 4K DPX would be higher quality. But as always we are juggling time and money constrains with a reasonable expectation for a good looking image.
If in FCP the keylight processing would go through some weird 8bit or 10 bit process, than all that would be a mute point, because no matter how good the codec is, the result would still suck.
I will do a blind test for the DP making 2k DPX files for film out out of Shake, and out of color following a Pro RES 4444 workflow, we'll see what he says, once he sees it projected.
 
If your doing VFX work stay away from Quicktime you want to be working in either DPX or TIFF sequences.
Noah Shake maybe dead but it is still a great tool and highly used in the VFX pipeline.
Even though I use Nuke more often now because its actually actively developed Shake still can be useful (if you can find a copy).

Why wouldnt you stick with the workflow of R3D make your DPX do your VFX in Shake and then output as needed.
Your going to get better quality by staying with DPX .

Shake runs fine on OSX 10.5.7 you should try a reinstall and make sure your up to 4.1.
You wouldnt be working at 4k anyway youd set your Globals to work in a proxy.

Btw Jochen what do you mean do your VFX in FCP its not made for it nor can it handle even a tenth of what something like After Effects can do if your looking to not move in the Nuke direction.I would do alot more testing. How long have you used Shake ?
 
Jim Geduldick said:
If your doing VFX work stay away from Quicktime you want to be working in either DPX or TIFF sequences.
Noah Shake maybe dead but it is still a great tool and highly used in the VFX pipeline.
Even though I use Nuke more often now because its actually actively developed Shake still can be useful (if you can find a copy).

Btw Jochen what do you mean do your VFX in FCP its not made for it nor can it handle even a tenth of what something like After Effects can do if your looking to not move in the Nuke direction.
Click to expand...

I second that... and Shake, if you can buy a copy (ebay), includes Keylight and Ultimatte, and at $500, that alone makes it a better investment, even if Apple isn't going to develop it further. Also consider AfterEffects... comes with Keylight built in. If you have Gluetools or better yet a Kona card, you can wrap your DPX sequences into QT and work with them inside of Final Cut as necessary, but I would stay away from trying to key footage in FCP.
 
You guys rock thanks.
I have used Shake only for about a year and in very limited functions (aside from the tutorials, but Keying is one of them (and roto, lots of roto) and I agree it is much better than anything else I have tried.
Our colorist also just told me he can load DPX image sequences in color, correct and output as DPX no problem.
Thanks for the Glue tools and Macros tips.
 
i think he means doing a green screen shoot and pulling a key with the new codec in shake or nuke or ae or something.
 
Mark Linthicum said:
Because it is in my experience as good as uncompressed with a much smaller files size.
Click to expand...
I did a 4k blue screen shots with build 21 for an HD project, I transcoded to prores 4 and the result is really good. Although I suggest you to use AE (works great with keylight), Shake or something similar, there's a a way you can do it pretty much in fcp: http://www.larryjordan.biz/articles/lj_chroma-keying_motion_FCP.html
Primatte Keyer in Motion works great but in snow leopard I'm experiencing weird bugs with Motion projects so I quit to use it.
 
For keying, I'd def done an A/B with dpx. Be it in Shake, Nuke or AE. My stommach and experience tells me that the DPXs - if well developed - will always be better.

As to Shake vs Nuke...

Did some A/B'ing on keys with the default tools on hard material (poorly lit bad colorbalance etc) Shake won hands down with keylight over the Nuke Primatte.

Hate to disagree with Noah, but Shake + DPXs is still my best advice...
 
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