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Graeme: Using AJA Kona 10-bit LOG RGB instead of DPX?

R

Russ Lasson

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What's the difference between DPX 10-bit LOG, AJA Kona 10-bit LOG RGB, and the AJA Kona 10-bit RGB codecs?

We're thinking of conforming in FCP with a Kona 3 and outputting to HDCAM SR over dual link HDSDI. Then we could take the HDCAM SR master with an EDL to a wider range of finishing facilities than just ones that have Scratch.

So if I could export from RedCine to QT files in one of the AJA 10-bit RGB codecs, that might make things go a little smoother with the conform in FCP.

One other question, if I do conform in FCP, I've heard several people say that it is limited to 8-bit RBG. Is that true, even if there is a Kona 3 installed?

Thanks for your help! Production starts shooting on Monday in Mexico. It's a six week shoot with two REDONE cameras on a Mexican Sci-Fi thriller. Should be lots of fun!

-Russ
 
Sorry to post without having the answer to your question, but I was going to tell you that I saw one of the cameras that you're going to be shooting with today and it is as good as everyone says. Rivetal seemed like a great group of people and I'm sure they'll be able to help you out with your questions on set and in post.
 
Russ L said:
What's the difference between DPX 10-bit LOG, AJA Kona 10-bit LOG RGB, and the AJA Kona 10-bit RGB codecs?

We're thinking of conforming in FCP with a Kona 3 and outputting to HDCAM SR over dual link HDSDI. Then we could take the HDCAM SR master with an EDL to a wider range of finishing facilities than just ones that have Scratch.

So if I could export from RedCine to QT files in one of the AJA 10-bit RGB codecs, that might make things go a little smoother with the conform in FCP.

One other question, if I do conform in FCP, I've heard several people say that it is limited to 8-bit RBG. Is that true, even if there is a Kona 3 installed?

Thanks for your help! Production starts shooting on Monday in Mexico. It's a six week shoot with two REDONE cameras on a Mexican Sci-Fi thriller. Should be lots of fun!

-Russ
Click to expand...

First of all, I don't think you can output R3D Files straight to AJA Log Files. Correct me if i'm wrong. It's unlikely.

As for the conforming parts. It depends on your codec, if it's a 8 bit codec, then you're 8 bit. If it's 10 bit, then you're working on 10 bit format. There's no such things FCP limits conform to 8 bit only. And of course, you need to set your timeline rendering to high precision YUV if you're going to do all of your finishing in FCP.

AJA Log Files is optimize for AJA hardware. If you need DPX files, you need gluetools to playback straight from QT. I would use AJA 10 bit RGB codec if the source is originated from HDCAM SR or equivalent.
 
kinobairn said:
Sorry to post without having the answer to your question, but I was going to tell you that I saw one of the cameras that you're going to be shooting with today and it is as good as everyone says. Rivetal seemed like a great group of people and I'm sure they'll be able to help you out with your questions on set and in post.
Click to expand...

I'm working with Rivetal doing some consulting. I was the guy that was showing the RED footage in the corner during the open house. It's going to be great to get this whole thing down!

-Russ
 
Rivai said:
First of all, I don't think you can output R3D Files straight to AJA Log Files. Correct me if i'm wrong. It's unlikely.
Click to expand...

We will be able to using RedCine. RedCine will export to anything that has a QT component, like the AJA Kona 10-bit LOG RGB codec.

As for the conforming parts. It depends on your codec, if it's a 8 bit codec, then you're 8 bit. If it's 10 bit, then you're working on 10 bit format. There's no such things FCP limits conform to 8 bit only. And of course, you need to set your timeline rendering to high precision YUV if you're going to do all of your finishing in FCP.
Click to expand...

I've just heard very interesting idea. Conform in FCP, then use the send to motion feature to render at 16-bit RGB. This could be an interesting option.

-Russ
 
Thanks for the RedCine heads up. Thanks Russ
 
Actually AJA 10-bit RGB Log is 0-1023 (1024 values, starting at zero).

AJA 10-bit RGB lets you choose either SMPTE range (64-940) OR full range (0-1023).

AFAIK and what I've been able to get out of AJA, the only real difference is that the Log codec doesn't allow you to choose SMPTE range, it is always full range, which can help avoid issues with not making the right settings to treat your full-range footage, or other QuickTime AI issues. Also, it is named "Log" as a memory aid. :)

Keep in mind that when you layback to HDCAM-SR, you only retain values 4-1019 (0-3 and 1020-1023 are for metadata), and that apparently 2 out of 3 video engineers (even here in Hollywood) will have a conniption fit when they get a tape exceeding SMPTE levels and will look at you like the village idiot when you try to explain full range to them (it's just not part of the videotape culture).
 
They have to support legacy television formats. Even HDCAM-SR gets a lot more use running TV work like David Letterman than it does in feature films. There's a LOT more TV made than movies.
 
RED FCP workflow?

RED FCP workflow?

So what is the best work flow with Final Cut Pro and HDCAMSR decks and a 2k DaVinci?

I was thinking of rendering the R3d files as 10-bit RGB and output to tape. We would do a tape-to-tape color correction and I would capture the project back into Final Cut Pro to perform the final conform. That is if I needed to do any title work. Any rendering in 10-bit would have to be done outside of Final Cut Pro. I could then work in Motion or Shake?
 
euge04 said:
So what is the best work flow with Final Cut Pro and HDCAMSR decks and a 2k DaVinci?

I was thinking of rendering the R3d files as 10-bit RGB and output to tape. We would do a tape-to-tape color correction and I would capture the project back into Final Cut Pro to perform the final conform. That is if I needed to do any title work. Any rendering in 10-bit would have to be done outside of Final Cut Pro. I could then work in Motion or Shake?
Click to expand...

Hi, If you make a title work be carfull, because if you goes on TV, you may want to see that in field and not in progressive. Text seems to work better in field...So get an output on TV and check. Also, it may be nothing, but you operation. FCP output to HDSR losses detail because FCP can't handle 10 bit RGB. Even if you're outputting the internal process going to be in 10 yuv. Also Capture again is losing details. But I think overall it's not a BIG issue.
 
Thanks Tyler!

Thanks Tyler!

It's now been a year since I started this thread. I just did a Google search to try to find the answer to a related question and this thread came up. Guess what, Tyler answered my question. Thanks for posting!

-Russ
 
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