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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Grade-worthy Displays?

Brandon Fraley

Brandon Fraley

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I'm expecting my camera any moment and currently only have my 17" MBP. I wondering if anyone could advise me on displays.

1) What's a good deal on ANY 2nd display to view my footage on while I edit

2) What are some good Broadcast quality, grade-worthy displays. I probably won't be able to afford any of these, but I'm curious and would like to know what other people are using.

THANKS!
 
From:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/971186

Re: Matrox MXO & Apple Cinema VS Sony LMD-2050WHD
by Paul Escandon on Jan 18, 2008 at 10:57:45 pm

Yeah - the [new 23" Apple] cinema display when hooked up to a Matrox MXO WILL indeed display fields - I know because I use this at home. It looks just like it does on my $5,000 Sony Broadcast HD monitor at the office... you can see the field flicker when parking on an interlaced frame and everything.

* * *
Paul Escandon - Lead Editor @ Outdoor Channel
Producer | Director - Oremus Productions
www.oremusproductions.com
Apple Certified Trainer - Final Cut Pro
- -
Adjunct Professor of Media
John Paul the Great Catholic University


Re: Matrox MXO & Apple Cinema VS Sony LMD-2050WHD
by Paul Escandon on Jan 18, 2008 at 8:27:47 pm

Shane Ross did a great review here on the COW about the MXO and the Cinema Display. I am currently a Matrox MXO user and have it hooked up to a 23" Apple Cinema Display. The results are great - this setup gives you a broadcast accurately display and the price is right.

One thing to note though - it won't work with an Apple 30" Cinema display. You need 23". The box is designed for the 23" and won't drive the 30" because of it's need to have a dual link DVI port.

* * *
Paul Escandon - Lead Editor @ Outdoor Channel
Producer | Director - Oremus Productions
www.oremusproductions.com
Apple Certified Trainer - Final Cut Pro
 
Thanks shooter, forgive my ignorance, but could you explain what an MXO is? Is it a card? Because again I'm editing off my MBP. Also, is the gamma accurate when using the MXO with the cinema display?
 
Brandon said:
Thanks shooter, forgive my ignorance, but could you explain what an MXO is? Is it a card? Because again I'm editing off my MBP. Also, is the gamma accurate when using the MXO with the cinema display?
Click to expand...

Sorry about that Brandon. Here is the article referenced:

(Link not pasting properly, search "Matrox MXO Cinema" on Google instead and click first listing)

And here is the link to the details on Matrox's site.

http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/mxo/workflow/

You are lucky because you haven't purchased a Cinema Display yet. I already purchased a 30" but this solution will not work with that setup so now I have to buy a 23" to go this route.

23" Cinema Display is $899 and the Matrox MXO is $995 so all in about $1,894 for a serious setup not to mention you can use it as your primary monitor for your MBP when not using it for grading.

-shooter
 
i can't get the first link to work, but i looked at the matrox site and the MXO sound BAD ASS This combo is WAY cheaper than anything I was considering and frankly has much more functionality.

Is anyone else using this? or have other suggestions?
 
Stupid question (probably), but from what I read you can display up to 1080i/p. But what happens when I cut in 2k - is that automatically downsampled?

Karapetkov, yes it should work. Though I do not know how accurate the colors would be on the Dell. I have 2 of those, and they definetly show different colors, even when calibrated to the same setting.

Matrox MXO turns your Apple Cinema Display or other DVI monitor into an artifact-free, true-color video display you can trust
Click to expand...
 
Martin Weiss said:
Karapetkov, yes it should work. Though I do not know how accurate the colors would be on the Dell. I have 2 of those, and they definetly show different colors, even when calibrated to the same setting.
Click to expand...


Thanks... hmm.

I was wondering... can one use a DLP Projector for grading, or is this totally inadequate?

I mean feeding one of those ~3K $ ones through a Matrox or high-end NVidia via DVI?

Of course, it won't be what a DaVinci2k + Christie2K is supposed to offer, but, it is something?

Thoughts?
 
From Apple Support Forums

MXO now works with newer MacBook Pros
Posted: Feb 14, 2008 9:38 AM

With the most recent Mac OS Update, OSX 10.5.2, the Matrox MXO is now compatible with all Mac models, INCLUDING the new MacBook Pros. Finally.

To get this to work, the following is REQUIRED:

Update to Leopard 10.5.2
Then Update to Leopard Graphic Update 1.0
Then install the Matrox MXO 2.1.1 drivers.

This has been tested by Matrox and according to them, it works. This has always been a thorn in my side, as I try to recommend this great box, only to have to tell people, "sorry, it doesn't work with the new MacBook Pro models."

Well now it does. Wheeee!

Here is the official press release from Matrox, with a link to the MXO 2.1.1 drivers
 
Tested DVI monitors for Matrox MXO

Tested DVI monitors for Matrox MXO

There are only a few monitors that work with the Matrox MXO for this solution.

See following link:

http://www.matrox.com/video/en/support/mxo/system/monitors/


As of May 2008, this includes Apple 20-inch Cinema Display, Apple 23-inch Cinema Display, Dell UltraSharp 2005FPW, Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW. They do not currently support Apple 30-inch OR Legacy Cinema Displays with ADC connectors. Need to have a relatively new 20 or 23 Apple Cinema Display.

-shooter
 
Brandon said:
i can't get the first link to work, but i looked at the matrox site and the MXO sound BAD ASS This combo is WAY cheaper than anything I was considering and frankly has much more functionality.

Is anyone else using this? or have other suggestions?
Click to expand...


Link not displaying properly for some strange reason. I've tried pasting a few times and each time it shows a differernt url than what I posted? PHP Bug?

Anyway, just search the phrase "Matrox MXO Cinema" on Google instead and click first listing. :)

-shooter
 
shooter said:
Link not displaying properly for some strange reason. I've tried pasting a few times and each time it shows a differernt url than what I posted? PHP Bug?

Anyway, just search the phrase "Matrox MXO Cinema" on Google instead and click first listing. :)

-shooter
Click to expand...

haha, did just that and it turns out i was able to find that page last night when I was reading about it :)


I'm SERIOUSLY interested in this solution. Can you reply to Martin's question about 2k?
 
Black magic design has a couple of external cards that will map out pixel by pixel anything coming out of your video card all the way up to 2K on a 30'' display AND will allow you to load LUTs for proper callibration. They are moderately expensive but they are VERY, VERY good. I'm upgrading to them when I put together my RED system.
 
displayport for the future

displayport for the future

Displayport is the new output standard coming around. A single port will support up to 2560×1600.
AMD/ATI has one on their new FireGl 7700...

Here is a prototype of what Dell is coming out with

http://www.gearlog.com/2007/05/dell_shows_off_superslim_displ.php

Samsung is announcing production of a 30" 2K monitor that only needs a single displayport connection.

wiki info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort

Does this mean that when Red comes out with their 4K display, all you will need is a single card with 2 displayport connectors? hehehehe.
 
Rudi Herbert said:
Black magic design has a couple of external cards that will map out pixel by pixel anything coming out of your video card all the way up to 2K on a 30'' display AND will allow you to load LUTs for proper callibration. They are moderately expensive but they are VERY, VERY good. I'm upgrading to them when I put together my RED system.
Click to expand...

can you tell me more about these? considering my budget though it's going to be hard pressed to beat the MXO/ACD solution.
 
rmott said:
Consider e-Cinema displays they simply are the best.
Click to expand...

I saw these at the FCPUG Supermeet at NAB. look great, but i'm going to assume they're wicked expensive. Their website doesn't offer prices, but the "$1000 Off!" statement on the homepage isn't promising. :(

Assuming the MXO works as well as it sounds, you get th whole package for under $2000.
 
My understanding is the Dell and the apple displays are exactly the same. (anyone able to confirm this) If true then the Dell would be the cheaper choice
 
Brandon said:
I saw these at the FCPUG Supermeet at NAB. look great, but i'm going to assume they're wicked expensive. Their website doesn't offer prices, but the "$1000 Off!" statement on the homepage isn't promising. :(

Assuming the MXO works as well as it sounds, you get th whole package for under $2000.
Click to expand...

eCinema's displays and Cine-Tal's Cinemage are (arguably) the industry standard in LCD grading monitors for DI suites, but yeah... they're expensive. They do a lot of stuff that 'normal' monitors don't, but not every business plan and market is going to support dropping $10-20k on a single display monitor.

I haven't seen the TVLogic monitors up close and personal, but I think their 24" comes in at under $5k, and is supposed to be really good at reproducing black, which is normally a serious weak spot with LCDs. These units have SDI, HDMI, DVI and analog inputs.

EIZO CG241W is at the top of my current list of 'budget' displays due to its wide gamut color panel and 16 bit luma processor and 12 bit lookup (gamma). Those are good features for grading. At under $3k this seems like the best bang for the buck, if absolute top of the line is not part of the requirement. Couple this with Cinespace color management software and I think it gets kind of hard to justify spending 5x as much for a marginal improvement. Downside is there's only DVI and RGB analog inputs.

For super budget conscious folks, or as a desktop companion to something like a Cine-tal or EIZO, the DELL 2408FWP seems like a nice monitor, especially at just over $600. I've got one coming in a few days so I'll report back when I've had a chance to bang on it a little harder. It's got wide gamut color, excellent brightness and contrast, and coupled with color management software should function reasonably well for color work as long as it's not a critical application. It's also got HDMI and DVI inputs, as well as analog, which is quite nice for a computer monitor.

But none of this matters without color management. Your monitor can cost $20k, but it's still not enough to be sure that what it's displaying makes sense in relation to what your work will be seen on.

Budget solutions like Datacolor Spyder 3 can help establish a baseline of performance from a monitor. There's also the eyeOne(?) and a few others out there that are very affordable.

On the higher end of things, Rising Sun Research's Cinespace (just acquired by Cine-Tal) can map your display inside the gamut and 3d colorspace of other measured displays, making absolutely sure that you are observing a close a replica of another display technology as your hardware will allow. Sample your display, sample another display, and create a lookup that will remap your display values to correspond with those of the target platform. Here's a very efficient way, with maximum user control, to make the absolute best of _any_ monitor, no matter what the final delivery colorspace or medium will be.



cheers,

John Tissavary
 
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