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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Goodbye RED Welcome EOS 5D Mark2

Jean Déraps said:
There are many cameras that can make an "outstanding quality" image at smaller sizes, and if your goal is to make kewl Youtube or Vimeo videos, then a RED is obviously overkill and a Canon will do fine.
But you'd have to see what happens on the *big* screen, and I'm sure the results there would be less than enticing...
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We all have reason on the quality of machines, but one thing is certain, if I direct a movie for cinema, surely I will use 35mm Panavision or Genesis Panavision with Panaflex Lenses.
 
I'm sorry to say there's no discussion really and I don't know why you waste your time? Both are tools and both can give excellent results put in the right hands. BUT to try to say that Canon achieves better images then RED is useless and a waste of time to even bother to go into.

I have friends who have used the Canon on very HIGH end commercials with great success but they also knew how to handle it. There is still though that the RED has more information behind the image. It's RAW and not quicktime. It has better dynamic range and so on - the list is endless.

Although I have seen some low light footage from the Canon when treated right (in post process) that looked absolutely amazing. In saying that same guys would make RED material also look a trillion times better so it's apples for apples and oranges for....
 
cineguz said:
EOS 5D Mark 2 has changed everything... outstanding quality
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Yes. With Canon's amazing new Line Skipping Design (L.S.D.), image quality takes on a whole new meaning! Canon has advanced into the new age of camera design. They shed all the old-fashioned ideas about trying to avoid aliasing and other artifacts. They have fully embraced the new reality: artifacts are beautiful!

Unfortunately, RED is full of Luddites. They still think that aliasing artifacts and LSD should be avoided. RED needlessly burdens themselves with arbitrary design requirements such as reading the whole sensor instead of using the Canon's superior "one, two, skip a few" technology. At this rate, RED's image quality will never get junky enough to compete with Canon.

This thread is just a signpost of RED's impending doom as customers flock en masse to junkier cameras that provide the artifacts they so desire. When RED fails, I hope other manufacturers will learn from its example: customers don't care about image quality, artifacts, or any of that garbage. Just cut every corner possible to give them a big sensor for a low price. The high quality cameras must be forced from the market place by any means necessary. Only then will filmmakers find utopia.
 
Albert Armes said:
You location says Portugal, a PAL country. How do you deal with the 30p and rolling shutter?
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Now don't forget the RED One suffers from a rolling shutter as well. I have to say though, the Canon is in the pro-sumer range of quality. I just had a project come across with miserable h.264 artifacts all over it and it was for green screen! I can't imagine that kind of compression looks good projected. These are two totally different beasts, plain and simple.

Also - Shouldn't there not be much of a problem shooting at 30p? You wouldn't have to make up frames, just correctly remove them in some sort of cadence for PAL.
 
Daniel Browning said:
Yes. With Canon's amazing new Line Skipping Design (L.S.D.), image quality takes on a whole new meaning! Canon has advanced into the new age of camera design. They shed all the old-fashioned ideas about trying to avoid aliasing and other artifacts. They have fully embraced the new reality: artifacts are beautiful!

Unfortunately, RED is full of Luddites. They still think that aliasing artifacts and LSD should be avoided. RED needlessly burdens themselves with arbitrary design requirements such as reading the whole sensor instead of using the Canon's superior "one, two, skip a few" technology. At this rate, RED's image quality will never get junky enough to compete with Canon.

This thread is just a signpost of RED's impending doom as customers flock en masse to junkier cameras that provide the artifacts they so desire. When RED fails, I hope other manufacturers will learn from its example: customers don't care about image quality, artifacts, or any of that garbage. Just cut every corner possible to give them a big sensor for a low price. The high quality cameras must be forced from the market place by any means necessary. Only then will filmmakers find utopia.
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You're funny!
 
As Tool for music videos, even in PAL land, I think the 5D is pretty remarkable if you work around it's flaws (shooting 30fps for 25fps, and cranking up the speed of the song to give the singer a bit of a slowmotion look, is pretty common in music videos anyway, so for this particular workflow it's awesome.)

And, because cost is a REAL issue for music videos (always in a small country like NZ, where every music video is basically made for $5000-$15000NZ -that's about $3-10KUS, or less) If you use it correctly you are still going to end up with a far superior product than you would have with pretty much any other camera.

But for narrative at 25FPS the frame rate issue is non solvable, for DI work for narrative, or even music videos, the originating codec is non solvable (so you've got to get your look in camera pretty much) for green screen etc the codec is non workable, so there is a huge amount of music video work gone out the window. For projection, the codec is non solvable due to the compression artifacting.

All in all, I could see someone who was ONLY looking at doing live action music videos investing in it very easily (and renting other cameras when it came to do Green Screen).

That is until Scarlet comes out, at which point it will likely switch the other way for anyone with serious cinematographic needs. (e.g. buy a Scarlet unless you need VERY low light performance, at the cost of everything else, although maybe it will be comparable there as well if Graeme keeps working his magic.)
 
Ok i got myself into a shit storm by using the word professional.
YES 5d looks great. yes.. people use it for "professional" use..

I guess my main point was. It is not a good camera for shooting a feature film that will be projected onto a large screen.
but then again.. I could be just talkn shit cuz I have never seen it blown up to full screen
 
Well...I have a rather simple question...between the RED One and the MII (I'm using the RED One because Scarlet and EPIC are built from the knowledge and sensors of the RED One...and One and MII are both out...)

Which would look better on the big screen?Which one wouldn't contain a high sense of noise or pixelation? I believe the answer would maybe be the RED but I could be wrong...
transfering that answer over (like the knowledge RED has gathered from the ONE) to 2/3 Scarlet...which is the lowest matachable RED to the MII...
surely the 2/3 in theory would rain down hell onto the MII

Obviously...form factor is a major thing here as looking at the comparative pictures...that is probably where MII might win...but quality wise? I don't know...like most have said...you'd need to do a test...
Getting 'hollywood' quality on Vimeo is one thing....getting it in a cinema is another...

I'm sure in a few years my iPhone could do the same :P
 
The 5D is a nice camera. No arguments here. They did a few things right, absolutely! In low light scenarios I would consider using it for sure on my shoots. I think this is where it shines, true blacks, high sensitivity etc. But 30p? I'll wait for a similar 24p option as well as other over/undercrank options.
 
joakim_hansson said:
Nice Video man! Impressing results indeed from a prosumer camera.
But I wonder what it looks like in a movie theater... Vimeo and youtube is one thing, theaters another.
Anyway I think the 5Dmk2 seems to do a fine job for musicvideos at least, who ever sees musicvideos in a movietheater btw?? ;)
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5DII does make a pretty good web cam. The video looks better if it is compressed to 720p.
 
F/2.8, 30 second exposure. No moon, late at night. H2 setting on Canon 5D

I could not even see the sage brush in front of me let alone any trees. The mountain was just a black outline. I am just amazed at what it can do when you push it to the extreme. The other thing that scared the hell out of me was being afraid of the rattle snakes. It was just to dark to see them.

The next one is F/2.8 20 second exposure at 6400 asa
 

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as usual you are all here diminishing the toy.. ehehehehe you will all see it projected onto a large screen soon

hey did me say all??
surely not every GI joe viewers lol
 
Evin Grant said:
H264=consumer cam, that doesn't mean it isn't useful in some professional situations.
IMO the ONLY interesting thing about the MII's video is it's sensitivity in low light.
Other than that it's a toy.
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Low light and compact design - fer sure. It has its place, and I'll probably buy one.

But any footage I have ever seen (including all of the links in this thread) look like "video". Can't describe it any other way...
 
You can't beat Red in 4k with a cooke for amazing digital cimematic images but the 5dii is a great tool, climb a tree with it, hang it over the side of a boat etc. great stealth factor and an amazing tool to give artists angles they can't achieve with a 30+lbs shoulder mount / tripod setup.

I say go make your movie / videos with it, what a great little tool to have. Don't worry about how it will look on the big screen worry about your production. DVX100 productions have had great success on the big screen. Content is key, too many people forget that or underestimate its importance.
 
I shot some video of the Fireworks over Lake Washington and the Seattle aquarium. It was so nice not hauling around a ton of gear. I write off anything I do with the 5D as non-pro. But at least I am out again doing something instead of sitting here waiting and waiting. When the Red Items are available I will then act.
 
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