Good omni-directional boom mic?

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Hey guys, I shoot a lot with lavs and booms, have a Rode NT2 and Sure SM89, love them both. Though it seems like at times I would really benefit from something with a little wider directional spread with decent quality. Any recommendations?

 

[Todd T]

This may sound weird, but you can put a lav on the shotgun mic and record both channels/spreads from the boom.

 

[Sean Solowiej]

The Sanken CS-1 and CS-2 are wonderful short shotguns for fairly wide coverage. I believe they were developed for NHK camera-mounting for ENG style shoots.

 

[Marc Wielage]

The Schoeps CMC641 is pretty much the standard boom mic in Hollywood, and it's basically a supercardiod pattern: not a shotgun, but more directional than an omni. It can work to a point, provided the environment is quiet and the boom op can get in close. I also like the Sennheiser MKH50, and you can make arguments pro and con both mics -- it's kind of an "Audi vs. BMW" comparison.

Bear in mind that 50% of getting good dialogue (to me) is just getting the mic in the right place. 40% of it is finding a reasonable location that's sound-friendly, and the rest is technique and equipment. An expensive mic in the wrong place will sound worse than a cheap mic in the right place.

 

[Chuck Greenwood]

For the humble and hungry crowd that gets some equipment by going to the nice hotel and rubbing some back's of some cougar tourist ladies (and working indie thrillers) like myself the Oregon made audix scx1 hyper has delivered. Like to hear anyone else on that one. No question about the cmc641 what a turbo 911. Just thought I'd throw this kind of oddball Mic in the mix because it's lower finance department requirements and does quite a nice job run via a SD mixer and capture. Like the 416 people are programmed to recognize and understand the sound of the MKH 50 just like the default action mic. Just go with whatever Marc says never fails.

 

[George Willson]

Omnidirectional microphone if you want, you can check a professional sound recorder Sound Pano, which inside installed a 16-omnidirectional-mic-matrix that consists of 8 dummy head structure and each has a pair of dummy ears installed a tiny mic capsule. It has ability to record direcitons, distances and movements of sound source. You can check it if you have interest. Here is the link: http://www.scenessound.com/en/product/sound-pano.html

Hope it would work on you

 

[David Battistella]

I'm liking the Sennheiser K6 system with the interchangeable heads. Really convenient.

David

 

[Elsie N]

This may sound weird, but you can put a lav on the shotgun mic and record both channels/spreads from the boom.

Yes, that sounds weird... but ingenious as well. '-)

 

[Elsie N]

The Schoeps CMC641 is pretty much the standard boom mic in Hollywood, and it's basically a supercardiod pattern: not a shotgun, but more directional than an omni. It can work to a point, provided the environment is quiet and the boom op can get in close. I also like the Sennheiser MKH50, and you can make arguments pro and con both mics -- it's kind of an "Audi vs. BMW" comparison.

Bear in mind that 50% of getting good dialogue (to me) is just getting the mic in the right place. 40% of it is finding a reasonable location that's sound-friendly, and the rest is technique and equipment. An expensive mic in the wrong place will sound worse than a cheap mic in the right place.

Marc, as someone who has dealt with a lot of sound, if you can't find that sound-friendly location do you recommend using a mic with a high pass filter to at least filter out some of the noises in the lower range?

 

[Marc Wielage]

Marc, as someone who has dealt with a lot of sound, if you can't find that sound-friendly location do you recommend using a mic with a high pass filter to at least filter out some of the noises in the lower range?

Well, I think iZotope RX is a better answer for sound problems like that, assuming you're dealing with something already recorded. But there's a lot of "it depends" to the answer, since sometimes you have to try several different things in different situations.

I can tell you that it's very standard to record location dialogue and notch out everything below 80Hz (even 100Hz), since most of that is just low-frequency rumble and actually interferes with dialogue intelligibility. Many wireless mic systems routinely notch out these frequencies with high-pass switches for this very reason. Some Sennheiser mics (particularly the shotguns) have switchable low-cut switches right on the mic. I always used them; in tests, they were so "rumbly" as to be unusable. And the better the mic, the better it could reproduce low-frequency noise... which is not always a good thing.

Bear in mind that a lot of what people hear and see on TV and in film is dialogue recorded a lot closer than what you might think. For example, they shoot a scene in wide shots, then in medium shots, then in close-ups... but all the dialogue for the scene might come from the close-up takes. A lot depends on the sound perspective the director wants to maintain -- whether the character needs to shout (as if they're far away), whether we need to hear a lot of the location (exterior or a room) to give it some reality, or whether the goal is to make the dialogue more clear. It's all about creative choices. Some traditional sound mixers abhor hearing "wireless sound" from people in wide shots, because it sounds like a guy on a small mic from 2 feet away... which is what it is. I notice it when I hear it in shows, and while it doesn't kill me, it is a little bit of a distraction.

 

[Elsie N]

Well, I think iZotope RX is a better answer for sound problems like that, assuming you're dealing with something already recorded. But there's a lot of "it depends" to the answer, since sometimes you have to try several different things in different situations.

I can tell you that it's very standard to record location dialogue and notch out everything below 80Hz (even 100Hz), since most of that is just low-frequency rumble and actually interferes with dialogue intelligibility. Many wireless mic systems routinely notch out these frequencies with high-pass switches for this very reason. Some Sennheiser mics (particularly the shotguns) have switchable low-cut switches right on the mic. I always used them; in tests, they were so "rumbly" as to be unusable. And the better the mic, the better it could reproduce low-frequency noise... which is not always a good thing.

Bear in mind that a lot of what people hear and see on TV and in film is dialogue recorded a lot closer than what you might think. For example, they shoot a scene in wide shots, then in medium shots, then in close-ups... but all the dialogue for the scene might come from the close-up takes. A lot depends on the sound perspective the director wants to maintain -- whether the character needs to shout (as if they're far away), whether we need to hear a lot of the location (exterior or a room) to give it some reality, or whether the goal is to make the dialogue more clear. It's all about creative choices. Some traditional sound mixers abhor hearing "wireless sound" from people in wide shots, because it sounds like a guy on a small mic from 2 feet away... which is what it is. I notice it when I hear it in shows, and while it doesn't kill me, it is a little bit of a distraction.

Thanks for the look behind the Establishment Curtain. '-)

And while us Rebel Indie types (on-the-cheap-ers) are known to not necessarily follow proven principals, occasionally we do adopt that which is tried and true when within budget. '-)

Anyway, thanks for the professional take (from you AND others) on questions that we have on ways to proceed.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

We are lucky to have you Marc on this forum. Thx for your valuable inputs.
Pat

 

[David Peterson]

Hey guys, I shoot a lot with lavs and booms, have a Rode NT2 and Sure SM89, love them both. Though it seems like at times I would really benefit from something with a little wider directional spread with decent quality. Any recommendations?

Hmmm... think you mean the NTG2? As the NT2 already has a relatively wide pick up pattern.

And I'm certain you don't want to go as extreme as an omni for booming with??????

What you want to look at is the Audix SXC1-HC or Audio Technica AT4053b (or Oktava MK012 HC if on a very tight budget, or Samson C02 if on an EXTREMELY tight budget. Or of course in the opposite budget direction you have the Schoeps CMC641 and Sennheiser MKH50)

I highly recommend watching this short video before purchasing anything:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-b_1gOYOEQ