Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Good enough...

Status
Not open for further replies.
By the way, let me pose this question for those who think 4K is not coming to homes.

If Dell announced today a 4K LCD for $5,000, how many of us here would be beating down the door to buy one, or at least wanting to buy one? Probably all of us. Once this technology hits the market, people are going to be stunned at how fast it gets adopted.
 
I convinced my company to go Red over Sony F900 to future proof. We love the look of Red and though we only output 1080p now, we want our products to live into the future.

Thanks, Jim, for looking into the future and allowing each of us to embrace it.

Mike
 
Good enough is just relative.

...relative to cost...and convenience.

I think RED scores extremely well in cost, and better and better in convenience.

So maybe it's 4K that is good enough for now? Dono...

Antoine.
 
Chris Parker said:
maybe has 10 years left in any mainstream production environment. at most.
Click to expand...

Maybe. hope not. From where I am, those I work with, digital is usually not an actual option. A lot of folks won't stop shooting film. Thankfully.

I did learn at the camera assessment series that the only $ difference between shooting film and digital for a typical studio production is only 10% (which is the contingency budget). Hardly the savings nec to "kill film".

Hell, I'm about to do a project in Super8mm...

Why do you feel 10 years tops?
 
What am I going to watch on my 2010 4K monitor? I'm not going to be the first to buy a home 4K monitor anymore than I was going to be the first to buy an iPad. I have a 47" 1080P Sony LCD in my small living room and I have to drag to Lazy-Boy over right in front of it before I can see the resolution limit of 1080P -- can't see it from my couch six feet away. The only reason to have a 4K monitor in my living room is if were 100" or larger and I wanted to watch it from twice as far away, but that would be rather out of scale for my little living room.

Or if I were going to park the 4K monitor on my desk and sit three feet from it to watch movies.

I know it's hard to believe, but I'm not one of those people who buy the latest gadget immediately, I make myself wait until it's matured a bit. Rushing out to buy the highest resolution monitor ever made for home viewing before there are any products to play on it... well, that strikes me as an unmarried male with disposable income thing to do. :wink5:

I want a reason to get out of the house and see a movie in the theater -- get me 4K in the cinemas first, then talk about the home. We need 4K up on those 50' to 75' screens more than we need it on sub-50" monitors.
 
Tom Lowe said:
By the way, let me pose this question for those who think 4K is not coming to homes.

If Dell announced today a 4K LCD for $5,000, how many of us here would be beating down the door to buy one, or at least wanting to buy one? Probably all of us. Once this technology hits the market, people are going to be stunned at how fast it gets adopted.
Click to expand...

1) You need to post in 4k. I doubt TV will be willing at present.
2) You need to deliver it in 4k. Look at the adoption rate of BluRay. Look at the current level of compression on Satellite and CableHD. People have to buy new boxes to play back REDRay. How much is it going to cost? Less than $500?
3) If you deliver over the internet you have to get the studios on board to be willing to stream a 4k master over the internet. (See present state of HD streaming.) How many people have 10+mbps internet?
4) Will people pay the premium? I don't think they will. They seem perfectly content with awful 1080p right now. They seem largely content with awful 480p right now.

I saw a couple 4k displays at NAB. I only knew they were 4k because I read the label. Yes it's the worst viewing conditions on earth and I could see that there was an amazing amount of detail but if it's in a best buy it's going to be the TV with the contrast set the highest not the most real detail and image quality. I would be terrified of a 4k vs 2k 'blind taste test' on a 50" monitor from 6' away. I don't know that I would pass and if I did notice, would it only be because I had something 3" away to compare it to? If you switched my TV out every other day I'm not sure I would notice.

Look how long the industry dragged its feet on 1080p. There were $5k 1080p displays for ages while 720p was still standard.

Here is the terrifying and true bellweather of adoption of 4k imo. Here is a story from when I first got HD satellite when it first became available, the guy came out installed it, hooked everything up, tuned into one of the 3 or so HD channels and made some comment like "Wow that's really amazing." I looked at it and asked for the remote, flipped through some menus and switched the receiver from 480p to 1080p. He thought 480p was HD. He couldn't tell the difference. If I didn't know what HD was supposed to look like then that TV would still probably be set to 480p and the customer would have been none-the-wiser.
 
David, we've got to get you into PC gaming, and then you will be ready to park a 40" 4K LCD on your desk top. ;^)

But in terms of editing 4K material that all of us here will be shooting on Epic X, surely you would like to be able to view that footage in 4K on an LCD? If we are going to be master films at 4K, we need to be able to see them at 4K.

As to what films we will be watching in 4K at home, they will probably go into production later this year, when Epic X hits the streets. Not to mention that as Jim has pointed out, the studios are already beginning to go back and scan movies for 4K.
 
Tom Lowe said:
By the way, let me pose this question for those who think 4K is not coming to homes.

If Dell announced today a 4K LCD for $5,000, how many of us here would be beating down the door to buy one, or at least wanting to buy one? Probably all of us. Once this technology hits the market, people are going to be stunned at how fast it gets adopted.
Click to expand...

Your on the right track Tom. And just look at how at how many times what was once the norm will change nearly overnight.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
1) You need to post in 4k. I doubt TV will be willing at present.

2) You need to deliver it in 4k. Look at the adoption rate of BluRay. Look at the current level of compression on Satellite and CableHD. People have to buy new boxes to play back REDRay. How much is it going to cost? Less than $500?
Click to expand...

I didn't say 4K TV was going to happen in the present. But in the somewhat near future. Redray compression for 4K is already in the same ballpark as current 1080p cable delivery bandwidth. And keep in mind that more fiber is being rolled out every day. As far the Cable/DVR box, my cable company swaps me out a new one every year or so. No big deal.

3) If you deliver over the internet you have to get the studios on board to be willing to stream a 4k master over the internet. (See present state of HD streaming.) How many people have 10+mbps internet?
Click to expand...

Well you can simply sell 4K discs until the studios pull their heads out of their asses - same thing as HD. Bandwidth is constantly increasing, of course.

4) Will people pay the premium?
Click to expand...

Yes, they will. There are people right now paying $500 for gold-plated HDMI cables....
 
Tom Lowe said:
But in terms of editing 4K material that all of us here will be shooting on Epic X, surely you would like to be able to view that footage in 4K on an LCD? If we are going to be master films at 4K, we need to be able to see them at 4K.
Click to expand...

You keep using these numbers as if they are some kind of absolute. The fact is that perception of resolution is directly related to screen size and field of view. Unless you have that theoretical 20 foot screen in your living room - and very few have that now, and very few will have it in the future - the attraction of "4K" becomes a lot less relevant. While I agree it brings something to the big screen, people don't live in movie theaters. They live in homes in which the size of the environment directly dictates the size of the screen they're going to view, regardless of how much they're willing to pay for it. That's why I think the notion of 4K taking over the home market is just that, a notion. Regardless of technology, there are very real differences between the home experience and the theatrical experience. That is simply a physical fact.
 
OK, let's see the 4K (or 5K) files like film negatives :)

Antoine
 
M Most said:
You keep using these numbers as if they are some kind of absolute. The fact is that perception of resolution is directly related to screen size and field of view. Unless you have that theoretical 20 foot screen in your living room - and very few have that now, and very few will have it in the future - the attraction of "4K" becomes a lot less relevant. While I agree it brings something to the big screen, people don't live in movie theaters. They live in homes in which the size of the environment directly dictates the size of the screen they're going to view, regardless of how much they're willing to pay for it. That's why I think the notion of 4K taking over the home market is just that, a notion. Regardless of technology, there are very real differences between the home experience and the theatrical experience. That is simply a physical fact.
Click to expand...

It's got nothing to do with the absolute size of the screen. It's the combination of viewing distance and size of screen that you need to think of - angle of view in other words.

Graeme
 
Tom Lowe said:
David, we've got to get you into PC gaming, and then you will be ready to park a 40" 4K LCD on your desk top. ;^)
Click to expand...

The vast majority of game sales are on consoles.

Almost no AAA titles are even full 720p yet. Let alone super-sampled 720p. Gamers are often at the forefront of technological adoption. They often drive consumer purchases, far more than "gold plated HDMI" brain farts. They say they want Stereo3D. Until s3D in 1080p is in a large number of homes I don't think anyone is going to move on to the next big thing. Even then I think glasses free 3D will be a higher priority for TV manufacturers.

If NAB is any indication of future trends, 4k isn't even a part of the conversation. Everyone is pushing Stereo3D.
 
M Most said:
You keep using these numbers as if they are some kind of absolute. The fact is that perception of resolution is directly related to screen size and field of view. Unless you have that theoretical 20 foot screen in your living room - and very few have that now, and very few will have it in the future - the attraction of "4K" becomes a lot less relevant. While I agree it brings something to the big screen, people don't live in movie theaters. They live in homes in which the size of the environment directly dictates the size of the screen they're going to view, regardless of how much they're willing to pay for it. That's why I think the notion of 4K taking over the home market is just that, a notion. Regardless of technology, there are very real differences between the home experience and the theatrical experience. That is simply a physical fact.
Click to expand...

Hey Mike, we heard all these same arguments from the HD at home naysayers a few years back, but it hasn't stopped the onslaught of HD across computers, cable and TVs. Keep in mind that many younger people, these days, watch their entertainment on LCD screens attached to computers. I watch my favorite films, like Baraka and The New World, on my 24" LCD at 1080p, sitting about 3 feet from the screen. I watch a lot of Japanese animation at 1080p on my 17" Dell laptop. I love to sit close to the screen and really enjoy the image quality. Believe me, when people sit down a couple feet away from a 40" LCD at 4K, their eyes are going to melt.

BTW, I never said 4K would "take over" home viewing. I just said it would begin to happen sooner than most realize. Probably starting with home theater buffs, Red Epic filmmakers (wanting to see their own material at 4K), gamers, etc.

Gavin, I play all my PC games at 1080p, my LCD's native rez. PC gamers are known for driving technology. Already you can play most high-end PC games at 2.5K.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top