Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Going Handheld With The Red

Daniel Soderberg

Daniel Soderberg

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Messages
1,889
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
San Francisco
Does anyone have any tips on how to work efficiently with the Red One going handheld?
After about 5 minutes with the basic production pack set up, my arm/shoulder is killing me... I really want the handheld look for my films though...

-Daniel
 
mantis is awesome
 
Shane Kelly said:
Easyrig and/or element technica mantis
Click to expand...

Shane,

The Easyrig looks interesting. Does it also act like a steadicam making for very steady shots because it is attached to your waist?

-Daniel
 
- A rig with shoulder support like the Mantis or a pad that lives on your shoulder like THIS ONE are important. The Clutch is positively brilliant.
- I think it is important to have one that allows you to adjust the tilt of the camera so that you don't have to constantly hold it upright, it just sits uprignt on your shoulder.
Next, make the camera as light as you possibly can. Most people (myself included) work with a lot of stuff on the camera that doesn't need to be there when you work handheld:
- Use CF cards or SSDs. Drives just weigh too much.
- Ditch the baseplate and all of the studio/tripod aks that go on 19mm rods. They just weigh too much.
- Fit the Red with an ET or Longvalley lightweight 15mm rod bracket, and use aks that fit it. The Arri lightweight FF works very well, if you need a FF. If you have a good shoulder pad solution (I have an old one by Sachtler that has lots of adjustment), the O'Connor O-grips will work attached to the lightweight rods as handles, saving the weight of the Mantis rig.
- Ditch the EVF, it weighs too much. I use a Noga Arm on a Zacuto lightweight MiniMount mount to hold the 5.6" or 7" LCD out in front of me where I can see it. If I turn on Focus false color, I can focus just fine with either.
- If you don't need all the gear on top (rods, top mounts, etc.) take it off. If you only need one, take the other one off.
- Steve Gibby would tell you to ditch the matte box and use screw-in filters. I'm not so fond of that solution, but I have a very light mattebox for handheld. Get one if you do a lot of hand held. Clip-ons work if you have the right lenses. I don't have the right lenses, so mine is an old Petroff 4x4 bellows matte box that is the lightest mattebox I've ever seen, and completely adjustable so it works with the Duclos 11-16 and with the Nikon 70-200. I love it. I only use it for handheld, but it's much lighter than even the Arri lightweight matte boxes. I suspect that the Red clip-on would be in the same wight range (without the flags).
- Get a belt thing for the battery so it's not on your shoulder, or if you don't like the wires (I don't) get a more compact battery plate rig than the Cradle so that it is closer to the center of gravity of the camera. One of THESE maybe (I screwed one onto a Red universal mount.)

OK, That's all the ideas I have worked out. But together, they make the camera so you can shoot for a whole day without needing a personal chiropractor.
 
The Easy rig is like a backpack, with a holder that goes above your head, with a cord under tension coming down to hold the weight of the red. It is great for taking the weight off of your shoulders. I liked using the easy rig for some things, but mostly prefer to use a great shoulder rig such as the mantis, which as D Fuller says is very adjustable, configurable and very rigid. Which of course are some of the reasons why the mantis is loved so much. Going back to the easy rig, one less good thing about it, is that although you can remove your camera and put it down between takes, you still have the "back pack" part of the kit on your back, and so you are left walking around with it on. So if it is hot etc, then you want to get it off, but you don't want to keep taking it on and off ideally. I think it is more elegant and nicer just to lift the mantis off. I think camera stability is better on shoulder, than with easy rig as well.
 
Sam Taylor said:
The Easy rig is like a backpack, with a holder that goes above your head, with a cord under tension coming down to hold the weight of the red. It is great for taking the weight off of your shoulders. I liked using the easy rig for some things, but mostly prefer to use a great shoulder rig such as the mantis, which as D Fuller says is very adjustable, configurable and very rigid. Which of course are some of the reasons why the mantis is loved so much. Going back to the easy rig, one less good thing about it, is that although you can remove your camera and put it down between takes, you still have the "back pack" part of the kit on your back, and so you are left walking around with it on. So if it is hot etc, then you want to get it off, but you don't want to keep taking it on and off ideally. I think it is more elegant and nicer just to lift the mantis off. I think camera stability is better on shoulder, than with easy rig as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. So the Easyrig doesn't act much like a steadicam then is what I'm hearing... in that it does not stabilize the camera that well...?

The mantis rails seem to spread out pretty far, do they get in the way of using a follow focus?

-Daniel
 
There is a lot of good advice on this thread about tools.

All these rigs are what the military might term "force multipliers."

The thing is that what they multiply is YOU.

They multiply your ability to use yourself as a camera platform.

So an investment in fitness will pay off in your camera operation.

You can reasonably work towards being able to shoulder mount an R1 with the base production pack for a few hours or even a full day without being sore and miserable the next day.

If you can do that, then most of these other rigs will let you operate all day everyday for the schedule of a feature with little ill effect.

It all depends on your fitness though.
 
I've struggled with the same thing. My solution was not buying more stuff besides the production pack, but take as much off the camera as I could. Battery on a belt, hdd in a pouch (with a lot of airholes because it gets hot) and only a few rubber strips underneath the camera to prevent it from sliding off your shoulder. I have about 6 kgs on my shoulder now
 
clutch with red one riser and the lcd only ( or wait for bomb evf )
use red brick with batery belt clip around waist
 
The Easyrig is nowhere near the stability of a well operated steadicam, used carefully it's great for long takes without walking. It allows non shoulder height angles to be held and even some booming up during shots. It is great for your back allowing 10 hour handheld days. But as Alexander says fitness is the key. Torso and arm strength are vital. And legs , so actually pretty much the whole body.
As Shane recommended earlier the combination of the Easyrig with a Mantis style rig can work well. You can lightly rest the camera on your shoulder while having the stability of the hand grips. Of course the Epic is going to change this.
 
Daniel,
No, the easyrig is not a steadyycam but it does allow you to get steady pictures on longer lenses without fatigue . It will still give you that handheld look as some of the weight is still on your shoulder.
 
Thanks for the info guys!
I think I'm going to start with a Mantis and some trips to the gym.. haha.

Does the plate on top of the Mantis slide into the Red Bottom Plate like the Red Dovetail does? Or what are my options for mounting the Red on the Mantis?
 
Does the plate on top of the Mantis slide into the Red Bottom Plate like the Red Dovetail does? Or what are my options for mounting the Red on the Mantis?
 
The Mantis has an Arri compatible dovetail and anything that can slide on an Arri dovetail plate should slide onto the Mantis.
 
The basic RED plate does fit onto the Mantis (its designed to do so) BUT your going to want to put the camera back further with a quick release plate so that the weight fits more comfortably on your shoulder. With that, the idea with a small monitor or different EVF solution is preferable since the standard RED evf is too big to get as far forward as you need it to go.
 
It is a challenge that I have been battling. I have the mantis that helps but if you add follow focus and follow zoom with a box on the lens it gets congested and then you need to find the record button! Yes, I use carbon rods and have stripped what I could. I have an eng background and a steadicam background. The Red One I dont think will ever be as easy as a Sony Alta on your shoulder but then it was not designed for same. I used to do a lot of live stage shows where I could rock with the shoulder cam but with the Red the balance, and position of required gear gets in the way of moving freely. I just had to adapt and sweat a lot. I am going to use my jib more as another test. I dont think there is a silver bullet and you can spend a lot of cash for nothing.

Have a good day!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top