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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Getting the Look of Flash Photography!

Matt Garrett said:
jarred,
any pictures of that 12 bank cfl fixture?
Click to expand...

These are the ones I bought... they work great and are cheap as snot :) ( $150 bucks)

351012flo.gif


http://photographerssupplystation.com/thmxflo12.htm
 
For those para's... I'd think one of these would be great...

http://www.coollights.biz/cl20056-cool-lights-200w-5600k-high-softbox-bulb-p-83.html

I have 3 of them and they are really nice... great rendering. I use them as china balls bare, in the softbox's, and bounce them off walls, ceilings, and foamcore.....

Richard's ( owner of coollights ) a RED owner and great guy with hard to beat personal customer service.
 
Yeah Coolights are good people...
 
how much is hmi vs cfl part of the equation here?

can you accomplish that great combination of hard/soft that you get with the beauty dish, briese, etc. just with cfls? I had cfl lights pegged as softbox lights or just naked soft lights.

i've been encouraging Richard (coollights) as much as possible that a lower cost alternative to 5600 jokers, especially the joker 800, would be fantastic. great in a soft box...but also (I thought) uniquely helpful to accomplish more of the briese look I'm after (but cannot easily afford)
 
HMI's are very different from Fluorescent, and CFL's.

HMI's have a very distinct trow of Hard light, similar is the effect of the CDM lights, and they do have a great positive impact on energy consumption since like Fluorescent Tubes, they render about 4 to 1 (the CDM, not the HMI, which they are 2 1/2 to 1), and since you mentioned CoolLigths, which I also like Richard's customer attention and will be getting several of his fixtures, their new CDM fixture is 150w but produces a light trow similar to the Fresnel Tungsten 650w, but this are Daylight fixture that you can use together with HMI's, Fluorescent Daylight balanced, and LED's.

Both the Fluorescent tubes and the CFL produce a softer trow of light, so there are very different from the Hard light produced by the HMI's and they do not posses the strength of trow like the hard light of the HMI and or Tungsten.

With proper filters and softness, such as soft boxes and reflectors you can have the HMI's simulate the light trow and softness of the Fluorescents, but this is often pointless, as the Fluorescent fixtures cost a fraction of HMI's and only consume one fourth of energy to what they give in Watts.

No you can not afford to accomplish such levels of light control with the CFL's they are great for the price and what they provide, but they are still limited in what you can achieve with them.


When ever possible I always tell people to stay away from them, and just spend little more and get fixtures such as the Kino Diva's of better yet CoolLights new Portables at one third the price and with exact Photometric of the Diva's.

And the new CDM's provide the hard fill needed to accent the hair or fill trow needed to complement the soft illumination configuration to a three or four light set up.

ciao
 
thanks Ketch. Sorry, I already know the differences between hmi, cfl and hot lights--that's not actually what I was asking.

My question was specifically related to the use of CFLs in the parabolic fixtures being discussed. a couple people starting mentioning the use of cfl's and I got the impression they were thinking they would be good with the parabolic fixtures (e.g. briese).

My thinking to date has been that they would fail to bring out the particular characteristics that are drawing us to these special fixtures--namely the great combination of hard and soft light. For this I think that an HMI is required. In other words, the parabolic fixture combined with the particular punch of HMI is getting what we need; CFLs would be too soft in this application. That's what I think at least.

Am I wrong in this? Can CFLs deliver the punch to bring out the fantastic light from parabolic fixtures?

cheers
 
ive tried that already.. and yes it does work.. but its still very different than an Xenon or HMI bulb in the same configuration. Punch is probably the worst word to describe CFL's.. Its actually quite the opposite. CFL's are incredibly efficient but the throw is short....

We need to be careful grouping in the Briese lights with Parabolics.. There are many parabolics out there but from what I have tried, nothing compares to Briese/B2pro.. ( echoing Ketch's earlier comments) specially when you start adding things like zebra modifiers and the other shape changing modules they offer.

You need to start thinking of light traveling like waves in the ocean for it really to sink in the magic that happens with some of these lights as they push light forward. I by no means even understand a fraction of the science behind lighting.. nor am I a master of painting with it, but everyday as I learn more and more and am fortunate enough to converse and sit with some of the masters, I more and more appreciate the skill it takes to harness it.. and create it.

All that said.. the truth is that you can probably get "close enough" with almost any light out there with the right combination of dishes and modifiers.. to a point not many people would even be able to tell the difference.
 
Okay Paul, yes you are right, the CFL's are usable, but they just don't provide neither the look or the strength needed to get a proper exposure out of them, even if you put many together.

So you only have two choices, HMI's or Tungsten's with use of CTB's if need it to be Day Light balanced.


Again anything that produces light will do better then nothing, and one must do what one can with given budget and available fixtures, and the CFL's are tremendously cheap, in comparison and they can be of use, I have use them before, but will not use them again, its just not worth to me.

EDIT: few things after reading Jarred's post, yes they do work, but it is a soft light, similar to what Fluorescents are, they can be used by way of reflection or filtered thru fabric of Soft boxes, but they will be then further softened and their covered area of illumination and strength will further and drastically change, for this the need of HMI's, Tungsten's and other strong and hard light sources to properly bounce in Parabolic, and umbrellas.

ciao
 
When I look at that one earlier photo that someone posted in this thread of the beauty shot of the girl outside obtained with the beauty dish, you could never achieve that kind of look with CFLs of course, even in a parabola (and certainly not outside in full daylight). CFL is really mostly usable in a controlled environment and even then, its a certain look along the lines of a softbox. If you were lucky maybe you could use a CFL array at really close range outside in deep shade as a fill but certainly never as a hard key.

Got to have a hard point light source in a parabola to do that like Jarred's system he showed here. Optex Aurasoft (which I believe is out of business or at least you can't find a website or anyone selling new ones) had a similar kind of system which was a really big par in two or three sizes. Not nearly as portable as the other units shown here perhaps. You can still find used ones around or on rental some places. The drawback of course of all those kinds is that they can only really be a softer light than a normal HMI par and can never be harder.

Also, I wonder really about these cheaper umbrella type systems where the light is out front and focused back into the parabola as opposed to the bulb sticking through the back (like a normal par config). I doubt the umbrella with light pointing backwards into it could ever be as efficient as something like the B2Pro system.
 
Hey Shawn those look like the same ones we have and that i pointed to earlier..... i bet they are all made at the same place :)
 
Jarred Land said:
Hey Shawn those look like the same ones we have and that i pointed to earlier..... i bet they are all made at the same place :)
Click to expand...

lol, probably. though the ones you posted were 6 & 12 bulb configs, the fotodiox are 9 and 16 bulb configs.

ever tried running something like this (with CFLs) off the small Honda eu2000i genny or a battery-inverter setup?
 
oh wow didnt notice that they were 16 bulbs.. wholly smokes :)

havnt tried running them off an inverter yet..
 
KETCH ROSSI said:
I have, was using the Honda 2000 UI with nine of this http://www.1000bulbs.com/150-to-200-Watt-Compact-Fluorscent/33999/ on three of this http://www.photoflex.com/Photoflex_Products/Constellation3/index.html at a 1800W total, and they did just fine, just super heavy set up, and lots of issues in setting them up, but they did however save the day, so no complains on the end, and the cost was ridiculously cheap.

ciao
Click to expand...

so that's 90,000 lumens?

Nice! Those 200W bulbs look just like Coollights model... good stuff. They throw better than most other types of CFL's because they are smaller.

I've always been under the impression that once any light source ( HMI, CDM, FLO, CFL, Tungsten ) is "Bounced" or "scrimmed"... they all "throw" the same.... it's the actual size of the arc, burn, or source that determines the throw. So... if there was a CFL with high output, but was really small, it would throw further... not possible though right?

Hey.... here's a freaky thought... how about an para that's lined with daylight 1W LED's? hehe... Fold it up for travel.....
 
Yes the final set up was something else to see those CFL's trow so much light, but not near in off, in a later test the Diva's had a much better trow, and at 4 to 1 ratio, it was nice to know that you could carry 8 units on locatin with just a Honda 2000 genny and have about 7000w wort of litgh!! Now that is some light out of a 2000w genny.

But a 10k of Diva's is not fun, and I'm so glad that some one like Richard came along with Cool LIghts and its Portables, and now I can get, will get the same 8 Portable of 8 Diva's equivalent for just little over 3k, now that is impressive!


Problem is that even with their 4 to 1 ratio, well almost, this fluorescent tubes still do not have the capacity of comparability to a Parabolic, and they should not have, they are different light fixture for a different purpose, but I have to say that the Fluorescents, even so perfect as they are, when used with a fabric cover, they produce a very pleasing soft spread, much softer, but also very well rapping effect.

Now LED's on the their hand they do have hard light output, and they can surely be used for reflecting off any surface or be filtered via a soft box or see thru fabric, and they are some out there strong in off to do so, the lED-z are one of those, especially now with their bigger Brutes, 16 and 30, unfortunately they are far from affordable, and since the 35% REDuser discount is off, now fewer people will be getting them, but this is bound to change as more and more companies are coming out with more affordable LED's solutions, just not as strong of Hard light output of the LED-z's at list not that I have seen.

ciao
 
I dig those Brutes.... as well as Zylights new panel.... I have the z90 and it's a handy little bugger. I do have a hard time spending that kind of cash on a technology that's advancing so rapidly.... same with OLED monitors....

I have a light fetish.... sort of an addiction.... Any source in the $500 range I'll buy in a heartbeat... even though I have a closet full of light's I rarely use.

Love this thread!
 
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