Getting started with the Scarlet

[Pierre Devereux]

Hi,

I am completely new to the Scarlet, and have realized I am in way too deep! :undecided:

I have been using a Panasonic AF101 to date - recording to a Samurai external recorder. The footage comes as 1080p25 and once imported into my applications (After Effects mainly) I go ahead and do what must be done. Lets use keying as an example..

I have been doing many tests over the last few months, and have come to the point where I can key the footage pretty well, and quite easily. I now shoot with the Scarlet-X, using a Canon 17-40mm lens, under the same lighting conditions, and I have absolutely terrible results.

I am going to assume, from the start, that the reason for this is that the RAW data being imported now is very much different from what I am used to. Is this a safe assumption?

Does anyone have a few links that can get me started on "Recording on a RED Scarlet" and importing the footage to Adobe products? I did a few tests so far (We have had the camera for two days now) and find that the picture on the LCD screen on the RED, the image shown on the HD LED TV connected via HDMI and the footage imported into After Effects all look completely different to each other :embarassed:

I am sure this is a typical newbie mistake, but any help would really be appreciated.

Thank you

Pierre Devereux

 

[Eric Santiago]

you should add REDCINE to your workflow first.
I work with After Effects and R3D files every day.
I dont ever go straight from SSD to AE.

 

[Joseph Coleman]

In my experience, I have found that encoding to an openEXR format for greenscreen shots instead of working off of the raw footage will get better results. Just my experience I don't know why that is.

 

[Pierre Devereux]

Hi Eric,

Do you suggest using REDCINE even though AE CS6 can use the R3D files? If so, Ill check it out straight away. Thanks!

Pierre

 

[Andy White]

Have you watched the learning/demo materials at Red.com?

http://www.red.com/learn/workflowworkflows.

http://www.red.com/learn/red-101 101 - you might find this useful.

You need to introduce RCX to do a fist light (adjust your raw footage) and then work with the RAW files.

RAW data is exactly that - it's the data the sensor sees.

Your Scarlet gives you the ability to change WB & ISO after you've shot. Obviously, you still need to light correctly for your shoot... but it's liberating working this way, as you're not locked into a 'baked' shot (ie your AF101 records in a picture style, has a WB and ISO setting) but your Scarlet records all of that as metadata... and RCX is your way of changing the data.

Try to leave ISO at 800 or 320 (there are lots of views about which is best) and light your scenes accordingly. Remember to ND and not stop down your lenses.

Get used to the goalposts and noise meters (plus the 'stop' signs) all these help you see when the sensor is clipping channels or if your exposure is too low (which will add noise). It's a different way of working vs the AF101... but it's pretty simple really, just don't try and use the monitors as critical image ones (ie you're not setting your colours or looks on-set), you do that afterwards.

Hope that helps - there's a ton of resources via threads here on Reduser - but the search engine is a bot crappy, so do a search limited to this site but via Google, and you'll see a lot of handy stuff.

You might also want to check out Phil Holland's Scarlet posts, as they're great and a mine of useful info if you're still scratching your head regarding the Scarlet.

 

[Pierre Devereux]

Hi Joseph,

Would you mind explaining a bit more about openEXR formats? I am not familiar with that one.

Thank you

Pierre

 

[Pierre Devereux]

Hi Andy,

Thank you for the links, I will check them out straight away. Yeah, the workflow is insanely different between the AF101 and the RED - but I am really looking forward to getting the hang of it.

Currently I leave the ISO to 800. We are shooting miniatures, and lighting the little guys is an absolute nightmare. Most of the shots are currently done with a wide open iris!

Anyway, let me get onto those links and see whats what.

Thanks again,

Pierre

 

[Joseph Coleman]

OpenEXR is a commonly used format in the VFX industry. The Epic/Scarlet have 16bit RAW. So the best way to maintain as much data/precision as possible when transcoding to another format would be to stick with OpenEXR 16bit half float or 32bit float, or DPX 16bit (not fully supported in most applications).

I've found that when using AE plugin's such as Keylight, I would never get very good results when working directly with the R3D's. But as soon as I transcoded them to another format, It would work amazing. Just make sure that before you transcode you set your white balance correctly and you should be good to go.

 

[Bob Gruen]

Another method is to add 2 different copies (pointers actually) into After Effects and use one to create a holdout mask while the other holds the color you want.

0) Make sure your comp is in 32 bit mode
1) Drag a second copy of the file into your working bin
2) Rename it, adding _Key to the basename
3) Add it to your timeline above the properly colored clip and time align it to the original file
4) Adjust the _key file's debayer color settings to give the best gradation to the green channel and separation from other colors.
5) Use your favorite keyer to make a holdout mask.
6) On your timeline, use the holdout mask to key the properly colored layer.

Bob

 

[Eric Santiago]

Hi Eric,

Do you suggest using REDCINE even though AE CS6 can use the R3D files? If so, Ill check it out straight away. Thanks!

Pierre

Sorry my answer seemed generic.

I lied, I have actually done RED MX to Adobe Premiere Pro/After Effects with green screen and have had decent success.

But since you mentioned you were just learning, I wanted to chime in that it never hurts to learn RCXPro first

 

[John Schick]

In my experience, I have found that encoding to an openEXR format for greenscreen shots instead of working off of the raw footage will get better results. Just my experience I don't know why that is.

OpenEXR is linear and has "Interpret As Linear Light" turned on by default.

To achieve something similar with the R3D file, you first must right-click on it, go to "Interpret Footage"->"Main", then click on the "More Options…" button at the bottom. Once inside the RED Source Settings window, change the "Gamma Curve" to "Linear". Then click "OK".

Finally, while you're still inside the "Interpret Footage" window, click on the "Color Management" tab at the top. Change "Interpret As Linear Light" to "On". Then click "Ok".

It looks like you won't be able to match the two exactly however, since the OpenEXR file has an embedded color profile "sRGB Chromaticites", whereas the R3D file doesn't.

 

[Joseph Coleman]

OpenEXR is linear and has "Interpret As Linear Light" turned on by default.

To achieve something similar with the R3D file, you first must right-click on it, go to "Interpret Footage"->"Main", then click on the "More Options…" button at the bottom. Once inside the RED Source Settings window, change the "Gamma Curve" to "Linear". Then click "OK".

Finally, while you're still inside the "Interpret Footage" window, click on the "Color Management" tab at the top. Change "Interpret As Linear Light" to "On". Then click "Ok".

It looks like you won't be able to match the two exactly however, since the OpenEXR file has an embedded color profile "sRGB Chromaticites", whereas the R3D file doesn't.

I am well aware of that. The reason why I told him to export to EXR is because I get better results when keying the footage compared to using the raw R3D's to key off of.

 

[John Schick]

@Joseph - Cool, no worries.

For anyone who's interested, I did some more tests and it looks like the correct way for bringing in an R3D as linear-light is to first import it as REDlogFilm, then apply a Cineon Converter (Effects -> Utilities). Change the Gamma to 1.0 and the Highlight Rolloff to 0 (Leave the other settings as default).

This is practically identical to the OpenEXR once you turn off "Interpret as Linear Light" in the Interpret Footage / Color Management options (which is just applying an sRGB curve / ~Gamma 2.2).

To convert the linear image back to log, just apply another Cineon Converter on top of everything and change the "Conversion Type" to "linear to log", then set the Gamma to 1.0.

It turns out the "linear" setting in Adobe's RED Source Settings is scaled to a range of 0 and 1 - that's why it looks different than the OpenEXR, which is using floating-point Linear (same as Cineon Converter + REDlogFilm). Also, for this workflow, you'd probably want to set your project color depth to 32-bpc.

 

[Pierre Devereux]

Hi,

Thanks guys,

Eric,

I got myself a copy of RCXPro - Ill start on it now and see whats what - thanks for the pointer.

Joseph,

I will read up on OpenEXR and see how I can fit it into my workflow (which has to be completely changed now anyway! )

Bob,

Are you pointing to a Premier or After Effects solutions there? It sounds similar to workflows I have used before in After Effects - Ill give that a go as well. It is just that, being so new to RAW, I am finding it a bit of a struggle to get my mind around getting the footage to look right on the monitor, compared to what the sensor has recorded. I am sure it is actually quite a simple solution once you get the hang of it, I just need to get to that point.

Thanks to all,

Pierre Devereux