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Gemini VS Dragon-X

Emilian Dechev

Emilian Dechev

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Gemini VS Dragon-X - any tests or thoughts?

As far as I know, these are 2 different sensors, so I am wondering, how the Dragon-X will stack next to Gemini's great low light capability. Is the 5000$ difference worth it?
 
Thanks for posting this link Nicolas!, I've been looking for something on a comparison between the two.
 
I think the difference is substantial enough.

Not only is Gemini much taller (better for Anamorphic), but its 5k is actually ~APS-H/1.3x (same as 6k Dragon, or 8k Helium), while Dragon-X's 5k is much closer to s35/APS-C/1.5x. On top of that, dual ISO and much bigger pixels (positive effect on usable DR and noise). It's a tough choice since the $5k difference can get you close to a b-cam (e.g. a used Raven), and Dragon has a magic to it...
 
Mike P. said:
and Dragon has a magic to it...
Click to expand...


This to me is the important thing to note. Dragon really does have a certain quality to it that makes it unique in a fantastic way. Someone brought up a really great point here on one of the threads I read. While a lot of sensors are getting more color accurate and producing what your eyes see naturally, there are some qualities that come with a sensor that has it's own look, it's own impression of that scene you're viewing with your eyes. Not to say you cant balance a Gemini to a Dragon or vice versa... But much like the Alexa has a look to it, so does the Dragon and in it's absence in the 8k realm and all conversations about 8k, I've discovered just how of a look it is. I haven't played with Gemini yet, so without trying it i cant say anything about that, but I've always loved the look of Dragon.
 
My view is that Gemini, dragon-x, and vv are unified under ipp2. I shoot a lot with vv and Gemini, on paper they seem a lot different, but with standard lighting with ipp2 I'd be hard pressed to say which is which once it goes through ipp2 to the DI. Dragon-x and Gemini both being 5k, I reallly like how Gemini lines up with monstro as it goes to quadhd via ipp2. This might be kind of bogus, but I "feel" helium is "precise/clean", while both Gemini and monstro feel "smooth", while dragon-x feels "natural". So if I was cutting hairs, again with ipp2 the difference is so small, I prefer intercutting between vv&Gemini rather the vv&dragon-x.
 
Nicolas Chareyre said:
There is a comparison that was made by Paulo Emilio on the RED GEMINI USERS group. Significative difference, mostly in the shadows. https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49347917_2293636880920370_7774498277344411648_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=0ee809e17fad6105dc3b971d8d84c4c7&oe=5CB77E48
Click to expand...


There's an obvious difference, and I think that Dragon is on the right? It would be nice to see a comparison that don't compress the image like this. And it would be nice to see a comparison of 6K Downsampled Dragon to 5K Downsampled Gemini.
I've worked with both cameras in post, but it's hard to say when just looking at material that wasn't shot at the same time with both cameras.
 
We've been working with a lot of Gemini footage recently, and it's pretty impressive I have to say. What it can do at 3200 ISO is ludicrous, and at 800 ISO it looks great too. Really impressed so far.
 
I'm sure it's just me and my bad eyes, but I honestly hardly see ANY differences between the two shots in that comparison. I love this sort of thing since it makes me wonder if hanging on to my Scarlet Dragon might actually make more sense for us than upgrading to Gemini.
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
I'm sure it's just me and my bad eyes, but I honestly hardly see ANY differences between the two shots in that comparison. I love this sort of thing since it makes me wonder if hanging on to my Scarlet Dragon might actually make more sense for us than upgrading to Gemini.
Click to expand...

And a lot of lens choice in the s35 range for scarlet 5k.
DSMC3 is not that far away.
 
We've been working with a lot of Epic Dragon and Gemini footage recently, and Gemini is a significant upgrade. Not just at 3200 ISO, but even at 800 ISO.
 
Nick Morrison said:
We've been working with a lot of Epic Dragon and Gemini footage recently, and Gemini is a significant upgrade. Not just at 3200 ISO, but even at 800 ISO.
Click to expand...

What if all your lenses are s35(fujinon 20-120mm Cabrio / T3.5(XK6x20) for example)? and you shoot for a 4k or UHD output, is the Gemini 4k FF better than a scarlet with a 5k FF?
 
Misha Engel said:
What if all your lenses are s35(fujinon 20-120mm Cabrio / T3.5(XK6x20) for example)? and you shoot for a 4k or UHD output, is the Gemini 4k FF better than a scarlet with a 5k FF?
Click to expand...

Yes, much.

Don't get distracted by the K's. Gemini pixels are way better.

For example, we do a lot of reframing in our work. But we rarely reframe 6K Dragon more than 1.7x in Resolve.

But in our Gemini tests, it was easy to reframe 5K Gemini up to 2.0x or even more.

It's hard to explain, but it's just an incredible sensor.
 
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