Gemini Noise Issue

[Aaron Lochert]

Well, since we're all doing it...

 

[rand thompson]

Redcine-X Plus Davinci Resolve.

 

[John Brennick]

Well, since we're all doing it...

Man these look sooo good. Awesome work Aaron! The girl in the red shirt feels lowcon but you gave it depth through the color separation in there. REally great work.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Is this any good:

Quite noisy tho...hm.

 

[rand thompson]

Sabovic,

I love the contrast and the colors you chose to go with. I would have never thought to do this!

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Sabovic,

I love the contrast and the colors you chose to go with. I would have never thought to do this!

Yeah, I gave it a little bit of mystique, I mean that's what I think I did. :rofl:

And the floor looks more wooden like this...I don't know.

 

[rand thompson]

Sabovic,

Yeah, I have Brazilian Cherry hardwood floors, that look about like this. The longer that Brazilian cherry wood is exposed to sunlight, the darker and more red it appears. I realize this flooring is probably NOT Brazilian Cherry and more likely than not the color I believe everyone else has displayed it to be.

I personally think my grade is probably the most destructive and goes against the original intent of adding smoke in the first place. I think I added both more contrast and saturation than was needed. I think instead of treating the image as the smoke filled room it was intended to be, I chose to treat it as noisy Log image.

However, I did this to further push the image up until or till it failed. I learned a lot from this image. I personally thought a 8:1 compression ratio in a modern Red camera would be enough to handle most normal situations, I didn't account to how smoke in a scene would affect that. I also learned that's it's probably best to use lighting more close to your final grade and maybe a different strength CTO or CTB gels to probably aid also.

 

[Les Hillis]

Just having a stab at it -



Not sure how it would look in motion, but I like the hazy sunlit atmosphere.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

White balance as a channel ratio is metadata in raw.

White balance as a function - affects balance - of RGB channels, and as you go off native sensor's WB you are pushing the material to achieve RGB channel balance to compensate colour values which were not recorded. In case of daylight balanced sensor white balanced to tungsten you are pushing the red channel and accentuating noise. So for the cleanest shot optical correction with filters will give the best result, at the cost of light loss.

When you shoot raw you have the ability to fine tune white balance without penalites to separation and RGB luminance consistency, which in practice means getting a more accurate and natural image compared to baked-in RGB shot off WB and color corrected in post.
That will not remove the penalty of increasing noise by pushing the channels.

Popping in to say a quick thank you to Hrvoje and Nick for their comments. I'll have to take some time and digest them! Thanks folks!

 

[Mike Kushner]

Hi everyone.

I'm a new user of RED and I shoot a commercial for the first time with my new Gemini ! I did a lot of testing before going out for this shoot, especially in low light condition. I saw a bit of noise before, but nothing embarrassing regarding the shooting conditions.
The problem is that I have noise on a particular shot, and I am very surprised, since the conditions were perfect ! Can you tell me if it's normal ? (see the attachment grab)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1zuUXKZgU2xzvfiG8MxDg082X9ZIUWZCR?usp=sharing

Here are my setting and configuration ;
Manual Black Shading (for every of the exposure time I usually use on set) : 22 feb 2019
Temp : 39°C (adaptative)

On Set :
800 ISO - 1/50 - 25 FPS - 5K WS
Zeiss Contax 21mm (open at f4)
RAW Level Bar : at 0 on both side
T/E : Green
Camera temp : 39°C (the camera was ON since 30min at least)
Color management : IPP2 - RWG - Log3G10
Lut on set : CL Canes (from lutify.me)
Matte Box : Schneider filter Hollywood Black Magic 1
Set effect : Smoke

Thank you everyone.
(Sorry, my English is a little bit rusty)

There is a lot to like about the Gemini. I've had mine for a several months. I do find it produces a noisy picture when compared to my older, Epic -X, 5K sensor in normal light levels. In bright light, I think I might rather shoot with the older Epic X, honestly for lower noise. The old, Raw "Legacy" process was explained to me as the camera having a native ISO (approx. 800) and it doesn't reduce noise to shoot a lower ISO (you are just over-exposing). However, I was told by tech that the new Gemini sensor with dual ISO and with IPP2 will make a less noisy picture by using the lowest ISO possible. Haven't tested extensively...although it appears to be correct at a glance. I'm shooting everything I can at ISO 250 on Gemini and only using higher ISO's when necessary. (until I forget the Kipper Tie is at ND2.1 and wonder why I was shooting at ISO 1600 outdoors in daylight.) I often see the array pattern of noise in the background of the image when shooting ISO 1600 or 3200 with or without the low light ISO setting. This is especially noticeable on the Small HD SuperBright monitors. (as the monitor is gaining image up for display). I'm interested to see if anyone has done a noise/ grain test comparing Gemini 5K to older, Epic X, 5K.

 

[Curtis boggs]

These images are beautiful, .. . the colorgrades posted, um, politely are NOT so beautiful!

What was the determining factor for the noise issue?
Is Gemini just that much noisier then Helium ??

C

Well, since we're all doing it...

 

[Chris McKechnie]

You still need to give the sensor enough light....and that goes with any camera. As cameras see more and more into the shadows, more noise becomes apparent when those shadows don't have enough light. ISO is the last thing you want to use to adjust exposure. As others have stated, you're a bit underexposed, which will produce noise in the shadows. You can take it through Davinci to do some noise reduction, but remember, to always try and ETTR (exposure to the right), so you can get a "fat" negative, which will give you a lot cleaner image, and more control for pushing/pulling in the grade.

I couldn't download the R3D, but did a very basic grade without any noise reduction off the JPEG.

 

[rand thompson]

Chris,


Here is a wetransfer link for the three files, I think it has 3 more days until it's deleted from wetransfer.

1 .R3d file
2 .RMD file
3 the CL-Canes Cube

https://we.tl/t-XWl1vX0ba9

 

[rand thompson]

Leonor Roversi



By 2.35 Studio


Shot by reduser member Julien Jauffret

Fiction pour la marque Leonor Reversi
Shot on RED GEMINI

 

[Andrew Reese]

Awesome video. Getting gemini in about two weeks very excited.

 

[Kresimir Knezovic]

I guys, I have a GEMINI as well since January and everything went good till the core temperature reached 80C. I sent the camera in (RED London via the distributor I bought) now I got the GEMINI back but somehow it seems to me that the noise is much more then before. Can you help me with this? Do you know if it’s possible that it somehow happens that the noise is increasing? I don’t want to send it again in without a second opinion, because maybe I’m panicking for nothing. I filmed yesterday 2 shots outside my window. 24 FPS shutter 48. Lens 25 CP2 T2.1. WB 3600. The first of the 2 is standart 800 ISO, the second is 1600 LL

I would really appreciate if you could take a look and let me know if you also think this is strange or it’s normal
Thanks in advance. https://wetransfer.com/downloads/321f12a02c9868c46191dfd53389e9ed20190320220451/f8a40c

 

[Alan Greene]

Did you do a manual calibration before shooting these latest test clips? There is quite a bit of noise there, but there's also very little light information at all.

 

[Kresimir Knezovic]

Yes, I did manual calibration. In standart and LL

 

[Aaron Lochert]

Yikes, yeah that looks pretty bad for FPN. Even the standard mode at 800 with a high contrast curve, I'm still seeing it in the blacks. Low Light at 1600 looks a smidge better, but not great.

 

[Kresimir Knezovic]

Ok shall I go to RED again, then. Because I really think the noise was not so huge before I sent it in