Gamma difference between Premiere and Final Cut Studio

[Antoine Fabi]

Hi,

I imported footage in both apps, and ended up with lighter looking footage in FCS compared to Premiere Por...

Is it normal ?


Antoine

 

[shashbugu]

i noticed this and both settings are at 2.0 gamma. i rendered a short clip and it was darker out of ppro.

can anyone comment on this?

 

[Derek Devine]

I don't work between fcp and Premiere, but maybe this tutorial will help.

http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/video_workshop/

Look for the Achieving consistent video color tutorial.

 

[Yuval Shrem]

I don't work between fcp and Premiere, but maybe this tutorial will help.

http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/video_workshop/

Look for the Achieving consistent video color tutorial.

Thanks Derek,

but this particular tutorial is for After Effects, not Premier.
I wonder if there's a way to apply the same concepts in Premier.

I have CS3 and didn't find a way to effectively see things at the right gamma.
As far as I know, the only way to achieve that in Premier, is by hardware solutions (i.e. Capture card or video-out card).
I really hope I'm wrong about this, but I too see a major Gamma difference between what I see on my computer screen and what I see (on the same screen) when sending video not from my computer but from a DVD player or my HDV camera's HDMI or component out.
The same clips would appear brighter when played by a standalone DVD player (as opposed to the one in the computer). They would also appear brighter when played on a Mac computer, as mentioned at the beginning of this thread.

As I said, if anyone has a non-hardware solution for this, please let us all know.

Thanks!

 

[Allan Stallard]

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but it is FCP that adds the gamma shift NOT Premiere. This is an old problem with FCP.

 

[Derek Devine]

Yeah I know it was an AE. I don't use Premier so I was hoping Premiere had the same capabilities. We have to export in Animation codec from AE in order to minimize this gamma shift in FCP. Its a pain.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A throttle tread is coming up AGAIN.

 

[Rob Lohman]

The gamma change on Mac results in footage looking darker, not lighter.

I think Premiere is sRGB where FCP might be Rec.709?

I'll take a look next week on my systems as well and see if we can figure out what's going on

 

[Antoine Fabi]

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but it is FCP that adds the gamma shift NOT Premiere. This is an old problem with FCP.

It's exactly what i suspect, but how can we be sure...but wouldn't it be great to be sure which one is "referenced".

I can't believe one of those two major edit suites core relies on "false" gamma...

I mean...it's incredible...just incredible...


Antoine

 

[Antoine Fabi]

The gamma change on Mac results in footage looking darker, not lighter.

I think Premiere is sRGB where FCP might be Rec.709?

I'll take a look next week on my systems as well and see if we can figure out what's going on

Hi Rob,

I see the exact opposite here between Premiere Pro CS4 and FCP.
Export the very same clip from FCP and Prem Pro without any effect or CC.
Premiere Pro export file will always look darker, no matter what you'll use to watch it after it's been exported.
I suspect FCP file has an artificially lifted gamma (and even maybe black level).

I'M curious to hear about your opinion.

thanks!

Antoine

 

[stephan orlandic]

I think Premiere is sRGB where FCP might be Rec.709?

No that is not the problem,
sRGB and ITU-R 709 have the same color primaries, moreover, You can say that sRGB is more percisely defined 709 with 100% white setup at 80 cd/m2.

Also, Your theory would mean that all materials 601, 709, RGB, ..., would be color shifted to 709 when captured in FCP which is not the case.
Shift is more of a system problem.

The gamma change on Mac results in footage looking darker, not lighter.

That is correct. The images look darker, and slightly more saturated.
But that is a know issue with Quicktime, and therefore FCP.
Aditionaly, You can see most noticabley shifts when exporting any captured footage to RGB images. RGB-YCrCb-RGB conversion is not properly implemented.

 

[stephan orlandic]

First of all,
You will see shifts when exporting and importing,
in both FCP and Adobe Premiere.
That is the issue of MAC and quicktime.
But, FCP isn't lifing gama, it is pushing it down like others said previously.
It is rather strange what You mention.
Check all the export settings again.

Hi Rob,

I see the exact opposite here between Premiere Pro CS4 and FCP.
Export the very same clip from FCP and Prem Pro without any effect or CC.
Premiere Pro export file will always look darker, no matter what you'll use to watch it after it's been exported.
I suspect FCP file has an artificially lifted gamma (and even maybe black level).

I'M curious to hear about your opinion.

thanks!

Antoine

 

[Michele Gavazzeni]

FROM THE ADOBE R3D WORKFLOW MANUAL.
For consistent color appearance of R3D files between After Effects and Premiere Pro, you must change the way After Effects interprets R3D files. If your previous workflows relied on Color Management in AE (i.e.: your Project Workingspace is set to something other than None), the required change is to assign the HDTV (Rec. 709) color profile in the Color Management tab of the Interpret Footage dialog.

(THIS MEANS THAT PR USES REC709 FOR R3D FILES)

FULL ARTICLE AT
http://blogs.adobe.com/davtechtable/2008/12/native_red_camera_files_cs4.html#more

 

[Lucas Merino]

I think Adobe products automatically interpret the Red file's outputLUT/Gamma Space as Rec709. And Quicktime/FCP interprets at RedSpace.

Looking at the Adobe plugin, so far you cannot choose this manually like you can in a program like RedAlert.

 

[Uli Plank]

You can choose all gamma/color spaces offered by RED in Apple's Color. So, the gamma shift should only be visible in the proxies (QT reference files), but not in rendered footage.

 

[Antoine Fabi]

You can choose all gamma/color spaces offered by RED in Apple's Color. So, the gamma shift should only be visible in the proxies (QT reference files), but not in rendered footage.

nope...

...not only in proxies.

visible in rendered and exported files, depending on the original codec.


Antoine

 

[Philip Powell]

I think Adobe products automatically interpret the Red file's outputLUT/Gamma Space as Rec709. And Quicktime/FCP interprets at RedSpace.

Looking at the Adobe plugin, so far you cannot choose this manually like you can in a program like RedAlert.

On the PC side, I'm looking at the R3D files coming in and I would say this is true. The files with Rec 709 assigned profile appear dark. No option to assign it Redspace.

 

[Lucas Merino]

How do we go about confirming or denying that Adobe products do not let you choose the gamma/color space of R3D files?

 

[roberto zambrino]

now that you mention differences between fcp and premiere, have someone ever tried importing an edl from pc based premiere to mac (fcp)?
Thanks
Roberto

 

[Birns and Sawyer]

now that you mention differences between fcp and premiere, have someone ever tried importing an edl from pc based premiere to mac (fcp)?
Thanks
Roberto

Most likeley Adobe is REC709 only or something like that. I've also worked with some softare for RED that only lets you select input gamma since their system is calibrated for use on REC709 footage only.