FS: RARE Angenieux 12-120mm H.E.C. (as good as Zeiss)

[Todd Anderson]

Hello All,

I've placed a rare H.E.C. ("High Efficiency Coating") lens up for sale on ebay at a really reasonable starting bid of $399 (see my full ebay description below). If you don't know about these special multi-coated Angenieux's, in brief, they are high contrast and and match the optical quality of similar vintage Zeiss and Cooke's.

NOTE: the mount of the lens is in its factory ARRI-B mount. Many Arri-B to PL mount adapters are available from places like Visual Products or Duclos Lenses and ebay. As are there Arri-B to Aaton if that were your need.

EBAY LINK:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-Angenieux-...ilm_Cameras?hash=item2eab800cfd#ht_800wt_1068

EBAY LISTING TEXT:

"Up for sale is a rare Angenieux 12-120mm H.E.C. "High Effieciency Coating" T2.1 Zoom. If you are not aware of the difference between the newer H.E.C. coated Angenieux lenses and the older Angenieux lenses, please read below. Also, this lens covers 16mm and most of Super16mm coverage with some limitations (see notes below). And most likely will cover the full RED 2K sensor area with no limitations.

Quickly, I should point out that the lens I have for sale was evaluated and serviced by Duclos Lenses in Los Angeles (see invoice in pictures). Also, I should mention that the lens has not been in the field since it was last serviced but has been sitting safely in a case.

Regarding the condition of the lens, the front and back elements are really clean as seen in the images. No cleaning marks. Note: I looked at the front element again this morning, and I don't see any scratches to speak of. No fungus or anything, naturally. The exterior of the lens, as seen in the pictures, is slightly used but not beat up or anything. The focus and zoom all move very smooth and free. It is in great condition, especially for it's age. This is a sleeper lens and really a great value! Don't be fooled by the outer old style Angenieux housing (which actually makes it nice and light and compact). The multi-coated glass elements in this this lens will give beautiful results.

Okay, here is some history and shared knowledge of the Angenieux H.E.C.'s :

Firstly, as mentioned, this 12-120mm has a similar mechanical design to that of the old 12-120's from the sixties (which are today not really sought after because of their low contrast compared to a similar vintage Zeiss), but the H.E.C. lenses were a completely different breed.

As stated in Jorge Diaz-Amador at Cinematechnic's wonderful write up on this lens (see link below), the 12-120 H.E.C. uses the same High Efficiency Coating and fluophosphate glass used in the $17,000 Angenieux 11.5-138mm T2.3 zoom.

Further, Jorge Diaz-Amador goes on to mention this about the Angenieux 12-120mm H.E.C. compared to the Zeiss 10-100mm zooms and primes:

Coating: Angênieux High Efficiency Coating (same as used on 11.5-138 T2.3 HR and 25-250 T3.5 HR) each surface of each element is multicoated.

Glass: Angênieux Fluophosphate low dispersion glass

Color Rendition: Neutral. Identical to Zeiss primes and 10-100 T2 zoom

Optical Quality: Comparable to Zeiss 10-100 T2 or Cooke 9-50. Intercuts well with Zeiss primes. lens can be used without limitation at maximum aperture of T2.1

Focal length usable for Super-16: covers nearly full zoom range at infinity focus (about 15-120mm) and 40mm-120mm (at minimum focus distance.)

So Jorge is basically stating that this is a great inexpensive alternative to the costly Zeiss zooms if you need something to compliment your Zeiss prime set. If you read the rest of his write up, he states that he has shots tests to confirm that the Angenieux 12-120mm H.E.C. inter-cuts perfectly with the Zeiss Superspeed primes.

Personally, I have shot with the Angenieux 9.5-57 H.E.C. lens and had the footage telecined on a Spirit 2K at 1080p, and the shots were as sharp as my Zeiss superspeed's and had a nicer feel. I imagine you would have similar results with the Angenieux 12-120mm H.E.C. In fact, the only reason I am selling this 12-120mm is because I purchased a very rare and expensive Angenieux 11.5-138mm zoom (as mentioned, having similar glass) and I did so because I liked the Angenieux H.E.C look so much!


Link to Cinematechnic's page on the Angenieux 12-120mm is and H.E.C:

http://www.cinematechnic.com/products/angenieux_12-120_T21.html

Lastly, the way you can tell if an Angenieux 12-120, or the 9.5-57mm, is an "H.E.C" is by reflecting the front element coating into the light. The normal coating (the old low contrast Angenieux's ) had just purple and amber colors. The H.E.C coating had colors like green and blue in there as well (see one of the attached pictures to see some of that green and blue). Also, the front element has a slight curvature if you look at it, where as the older style front element was relatively flat. And lastly, the serial numbers usually started with a 14xxxxx (versus the 12xxxxx, and lower of the old lenses)

More about the lens for sale:

SERIAL# is 1438378

T stop: T2.1 (faster than the older versions)

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to send me a e-mail. I should also mention that since I am just an indie film guy and not a dealer, I have to sell the lens "as is", and do not take returns. But feel comfortable knowing I have 100% e-bay feedback. Thanks for looking."

 

[Todd Anderson]

More images and proof of Duclos invocie....

 

[Brent J. Craig]

It seems like a link to the Ebay posting might be useful.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Ahhh ... I knew I forgot something. Thanks, Brent!
(ebay link now added)

-T

 

[David W. Jones]

Aaton mount?

 

[Todd Anderson]

Hey, David. I just updated the listing. The mount of the lens is in its factory ARRI-B mount. And as you probably know, many Arri-B to PL mount adapters are available from places like Visual Products or Duclos Lenses and ebay. As are there Arri-B to Aaton if that were your need.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
Thanks,

Todd

 

[David Rasberry]

I apparently have one of these too, in c-mount. Wondered why it had the T2.1 designation on the iris ring as there is no other marking to indicate the reason for the difference compared to an older f2.2 version I have. Thanks for the info and pictures.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Hey, David. Yeah, I have no idea why Angenieux didn't put some sort of other designation on the lens to indicate it had H.E.C. elements. But glad to see that the mystery for the T2.1 for you was solved.

I originally got a Angeneiux 9.5-57mm H.E.C. with an old Eclair ACL I had bought. It was in excellent condition, but I didn't realize what a gem of a lens that zoom was until years later. I sold the ACL but held on to the lens, which I still have.

Lastly, David, if you think you might be using your 12-120, Paul at Duclos lenses really knows that lens and will adjust it for you for a reasonable cost. I think the problem with most of the old Angeneiux (especially the non-H.E.C's) is that they have been abused, and /or have not seen a lens tech in ages. So people use them and call the cooke bottles, when they are out of spec. I've also shot some tests with a well serviced non- H.E.C. 12-120 and while low in contrast (not always a bad thing), it was great for portraits on the long end. Sharp, but softer. Anyhow, usually a simple service will get them back up to spec.

How did you acquire yours?

Cheers,
Todd

 

[Todd Anderson]

Just a reminder that this auction ends today.
Thanks!

-T

 

[David Rasberry]

Hey, David. Yeah, I have no idea why Angenieux didn't put some sort of other designation on the lens to indicate it had H.E.C. elements. But glad to see that the mystery for the T2.1 for you was solved.

I originally got a Angeneiux 9.5-57mm H.E.C. with an old Eclair ACL I had bought. It was in excellent condition, but I didn't realize what a gem of a lens that zoom was until years later. I sold the ACL but held on to the lens, which I still have.

Lastly, David, if you think you might be using your 12-120, Paul at Duclos lenses really knows that lens and will adjust it for you for a reasonable cost. I think the problem with most of the old Angeneiux (especially the non-H.E.C's) is that they have been abused, and /or have not seen a lens tech in ages. So people use them and call the cooke bottles, when they are out of spec. I've also shot some tests with a well serviced non- H.E.C. 12-120 and while low in contrast (not always a bad thing), it was great for portraits on the long end. Sharp, but softer. Anyhow, usually a simple service will get them back up to spec.

How did you acquire yours?

Cheers,
Todd

Bought it off Ebay . Lucked out big time as the lens is in excellent condition. It was advertised as having some minor scratches and cleaning marks on the front element, but that turned out to be on a UV filter riding the nose. The glass is pristine.
I bought it to shoot and post Scarlet tests with then sell again, but since it is an HEC, I will probably keep it. Most of my 16mm industrial shooting was done with an older A version 12-120 with an optical viewfinder riding an Auricon, both of which I still have. So I can shoot some comparison tests when the Scarlet Cinema arrives.
I have collected a modest range of vintage 16mm glass to provide an educational reference point for those who might choose to take this path. There are good still samples from Lumix G1 shooters with some of the vintage primes, and the best of these old lenses should perform very well indeed, especially for the price. Decent new zooms are quite expensive by comparison.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Hey David. Yeah, that would be interesting to compare the two. There is no question the H.E.C. is a bit of a sleeper lens, as it has similar glass that would end up being used in more expensive production style zooms that would come (and the market would demand), but is in the old body style which makes them a bit deceptive. Anyhow, you just need to find a 9.5-57mm H.E.C. and you would have a great pair.

I am also wondering myself if the price of used 16mm and S16mm zooms will go up in price when the 2/3" Scarlet's come out, as there really doesn't seem to be any new manufacturing of S16mm zooms from any manufactures (besides the S16 zooms that are being made by Canon, which I assume is very low volume, but regardless are fairly cost prohibited at about $19,000 for the Scarlet market).

And realistically, for certain situations and shooting styles, a small light weight 16mm zoom is very useful. Something that 35mm primes or a 35mm zoom can't fulfill.

-T