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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Forged 6k Weapon and Carbon 6k Weapon Shipping Update

I don't currently own a Red. When I put down the money on the CF Weapon, I thought that was top tier and was expecting to be in the front lines in regards to the CF Weapon that was suppose to be shipping this summer (I optimistically assumed it would be mid-summer) and the 8k sensor. Then this forged thing lurked in which I didn't even know was a real option until recently, and by then there was already a huge line up and apparently it takes precedence over everything else. Huge pain in the butt, considering purchases of this size usually require careful planning and I didn't have the necessary information to plan accordingly. At least it sounds like most of you have an epic dragon to use in the meantime, I'm still stuck with my c300.

Red, at least keep us in queue for the 8k sensor considering the huge issues and delays that you have already caused with the original lack of information on the forged weapon program.
 
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Jeremy Torrie said:
Further to what Patrick is suggesting, I believe those who were the early adopters should be first in line...and that goes back to the original R1's (which I still have BTW). I honestly didn't think my Epic-M's I would be so far in the queue as to be November or December when I finally get my Weapons...especially since I ordered within a couple of hours of the upgrade going live at NAB. I sincerely thought we would have our MG now with 8K option to be had by NAB at latest.

I suppose I was overly optimistic!

Granted, some of the early adopters are also purchasing the CF models, etc in addition to their upgrade paths...and I think that's OK. However, we now have those with financial means simply jumping the line and being rewarded with Weapons first. When one has invested hundreds of thousands of dollars of the years with Red, one expects some love. Yes, the loyalty program is great marketing and a wonderful philosophy -I just wished it counted for something more. And I hope this doesn't come across as having a bad attitude since even yesterday I have extolled the virtues of Red and Jim's vision to total strangers...

This is the open market of course, and I get the fact the CF and Forged units are ways to recoup faster on the R&D...I just happen to be disappointed I can enjoy the excitement sooner.
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I'm guessing the old loyalty thing became more compressed when things like AbelCine becoming an authorized RED Dealer happened. It's hard to keep total control over stock when no longer doing only direct sales.
 
i believe band pro has been a dealer for quite some time along with offhollywood unless i am mistaken so not sure if abelcine being a reseller is relevant...
 
Let me clear a few things up.

First, We are not shifting to a "rental house only" market nor are we ditching our loyal customers. Not sure how the math has suggests any of that, but the upgrade program continues and existing customers get the best bang for their buck following along as we evolve.

As for the attitude that we are only making expensive cameras now ... We have cameras in every price point between 15k to 60k. Our lowest price camera has better specs than our highest end competitor, and every RED camera from top to bottom continues to take the very best images in the hands of alot of incredibly talented people both big and small.

The Weapon Carbon, compared new to new , is actually cheaper to purchase than it was to buy an Epic Dragon Carbon M when it was first released.

As for the Forged, It didn't just suddenly appear three days ago. It was shown before NAB, and orders for it started at NAB. It is a specialty camera, and yes its more expensive simply because it costs more to make. Yes it was a bit sketchy with the whole talk-to-your rep to order it but we didn't go through the time and expense of registering SKUs for them, putting them in the system and getting the adult supervision involved because I really thought was just going to be a few of them floating around.

The Weapon Forged is machined out of blocks of interwoven multi-dimensional compressed Carbon Fiber. That takes a very long time to make but the advantage to machining them is that it is actually quicker to market since you don't need to wait for molds like normal Carbon Fiber does. This is nothing new, the Epic-M shared the same jump start when we released that a few years ago. The Forged always was in the pole position, was always shipping first, and the only thing we got wrong was the anticipated volume.

Yes I understand you guys are upset that you lost a week in the line up. I apologize. We upped production of Forged at our expense to keep that one week slip pegged.. and just to clear up some confusion Carbon orders will start shipping no matter how many more Forged orders we receive between now and then. New Forged orders between now and then do not push out the Carbon orders further down the road.

There is request I ask though, for those of you upset please throw the arrows at me personally because my team doesn't deserve the abuse.

From Customer Service to Engineering to Manufacturing and everyone inbetween the team at RED really are operating at the top of their game. Not only have we created another incredible camera but miraculously we actually started shipping them last month on time just like we first said we would, and not months and months, even years delayed like we have been guilty of in the past.

That is an incredible achievement in itself and I hope at least some of you can appreciate the work that went into making that a reality.
 
Jarred Land said:
[...]

From Customer Service to Engineering to Manufacturing and everyone inbetween the team at RED really are operating at the top of their game. Not only have we created another incredible camera but miraculously we actually started shipping them last month on time just like we first said we would, and not months and months, even years delayed like we have been guilty of in the past.

That is an incredible achievement in itself and I hope at least some of you can appreciate the work that went into making that a reality.
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Hear! Hear! Encouraged by your admonition to take up an issue with you directly, I attempted to send a PM, but it was rejected because your inbox is full.

In last month's version of this thread, the topic of LDS support for PL mounts came up, and you weighed in. I believe I'm not alone in being willing to spend the extra $$$ to get this feature for my next PL mount:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...estern-front&p=1529472&viewfull=1#post1529472

I fully understood when I posted that the answer to the question was academic until the Weapon CF production line was ready to gear up. Now that it is (thanks to your team's great performance), the question is no longer academic. Is there any world in which RED might have an LDS-capable PL mount in time for Weapon CF orders so that I can upgrade my order before shipping me a "dumb" PL mount?

While I'm at it, I've also asked on several threads (as have others) whether it will be possible to power Fujinon Cabrio lenses from WEAPON.

Thanks!
 
Have to admit I'm now kind of lost in the prioritization of how things are being fulfilled in order queues at RED.. so as I understand it, we now have a diverse range of factors including but probably not limited to

If you bought new, or upgraded
If you bought new, whether it was Mg, CF or Forged Weapon
If you upgraded, whether you're upgrading from a CF or Std Dragon
If you upgraded, and from whatever you're upgrading from, whether you picked a Mg, CF or Forged Weapon
And sprinkled in that matrix, the timing of your order

Is there a definitive pecking order list? My understanding is:

Upgrade CF Dragon to Forged Weapon + NEW Forged Weapon (being fulfilled simultaneous in order timestamp priority?)
Upgrade Std Dragon to Forged Weapon
Upgrade CF Dragon to CF Weapon
Upgrade Std Dragon to CF Weapon + NEW CF Weapon (being fulfilled simultaneous in order timestamp priority?)
Upgrade CF Dragon to Mg Weapon
Upgrade Std Dragon to Mg Weapon, NEW - Mg Weapon (being fulfilled simultaneous in order timestamp priority?)

Would love to go back to the simplicity of serial number and order date priority, because I'm a simple fellow. :)

I do wonder if the variety of options and upgrade pathways potentially dilutes value in the overall ecosystem over time..? That said, I do appreciate the amazing work RED is doing and that Forged is a wholly unique process intended to get cameras into the hands sooner than traditional CF molding and mass production lines would allow (and this is a PLUS for all of us).
 
Jarred, in your post you left out how you will be handling the 8k sensor upgrades. Would very much like to know how that will be done as that is my primary reason for buying CF Weapon in the first place.

To borrow a phrase from Fury... Thank you very much.
 
Hi Jarred or Red Team,

I have a question on ordering (non-upgrade, new purchase) the Weapon Magnesium, AKA the “Weapon for the rest of us” since that’s all I can afford. Not a rock star DP or a rich hobbyist, just another working stiff in the TV industry. Two questions

1) When can we expect to be able to purchase a new Magnesium? End of the year? Well into 2016? I really would love some solid time tables as I would like to purchase a high end camera sooner than later.

2) Also, will new Weapon MGs be available for purchase concurrently with the MG upgrades? Or will new MG purchases come after MG upgrades are done?

That could be a painfully long wait for new purchasers :( and probably have to look at other options at that point like the Alexa Mini or Amira (love the image but I prefer the practically of the Weapon).

Thanks in advance and any time tables would be great.
 
Hi Jarred,

We appreciate you guys working hard to get this rolling out. I'm sure a lot of effort is going into trying to please everyone. Personally, I just felt blindsided by the whole forged option since I'm new to RED and at the time of purchasing I thought that the CF was the top option since that's all I saw on red.com and was expecting August to be the delivery month. I asked my rep if I upgraded to forged, if I could still keep my time stamp in regards to when I placed my original order since forged was just made known to me as I started to participate on the forum. The answer was a bold no. This is where a bit of resentment began to brew.

Regardless, keep up the good work and let's try to keep those delivery timelines as close as possible! ;)

On a different note, are we SOL on the 8k sensors too with the forged priority? Actually, most forged orders didn't even have the option of purchasing the 8k sensor, no? Only the ones who purchased it while it was still available in April? So my question is, for those of us who already placed an order for the 8k sensor, will those forged orders that have not placed any kind of 8k sensor currently, but will have the option to do so later when it is available again, end up having priority in regards to the sensor over the CF Weapon 8k orders placed in April?

Thank you for the updates and I appreciate any feedback!
 
Bo Kostelac said:
On a different note, are we SOL on the 8k sensors too with the forged priority? Actually, most forged orders didn't even have the option of purchasing the 8k sensor, no? Only the ones who purchased it while it was still available in April? So my question is, for those of us who already placed an order for the 8k sensor, will those forged orders that have not placed any kind of 8k sensor currently, but will have the option to do so later when it is available again, end up having priority in regards to the sensor over the CF Weapon 8k orders placed in April?
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I think Jared was very clear in stating that we that ordered carbon fiber 8k at NAB have now lost priority:
Jarred Land said:
...
3) Forged orders take priority for 8K sensor Upgrades.
Click to expand...

On this I hope it didn't come across that I placed my references on any one at RED aside from Jarred. Also I'm not seeing this as merely a week lost in my delivery time of 8k. Jarred's statement bellow seems totally invalid for people that ordered 8k at NAB:

Jarred Land said:
...
Yes I understand you guys are upset that you lost a week in the line up. I apologize. We upped production of Forged at our expense to keep that one week slip pegged.. and just to clear up some confusion Carbon orders will start shipping no matter how many more Forged orders we receive between now and then. New Forged orders between now and then do not push out the Carbon orders further down the road.

There is request I ask though, for those of you upset please throw the arrows at me personally because my team doesn't deserve the abuse.
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Now, anyone that has the money (or leverages themselves so they can get the initial camera rental bump on new models) can buy a forged weapon and get in front of me on the queue to get 8k - thus I have NO IDEA when I will be getting my 8k just that my date possibly slides with every forged weapon order.
 
PatrickFaith said:
I think Jared was very clear in stating that we that ordered carbon fiber 8k at NAB have now lost priority:


On this I hope it didn't come across that I placed my references on any one at RED aside from Jarred. Also I'm not seeing this as merely a week lost in my delivery time of 8k. Jarred's statement bellow seems totally invalid for people that ordered 8k at NAB:


Now, anyone that has the money (or leverages themselves so they can get the initial camera rental bump on new models) can buy a forged weapon and get in front of me on the queue to get 8k - thus I have NO IDEA when I will be getting my 8k just that my date possibly slides with every forged weapon order.
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To add to what Patrick is saying, my understanding was that the 8k sensor had to be ordered in specific numbers around NAB and that any new batches would be ordered later. My concern is that the New-Forged orders will have priority on that first batch and will likely put me et. al. in waiting mode for the next batch to arrive.

Sounds like the 8k sensor isn't easy to fabricate and if they needed a 6 month lead time to get the first batch out, then how long til the second batch arrives?
 
Elsie N said:
To add to what Patrick is saying, my understanding was that the 8k sensor had to be ordered in specific numbers around NAB and that any new batches would be ordered later. My concern is that the New-Forged orders will have priority on that first batch and will likely put me et. al. in waiting mode for the next batch to arrive.

Sounds like the 8k sensor isn't easy to fabricate and if they needed a 6 month lead time to get the first batch out, then how long til the second batch arrives?
Click to expand...


O ok, ok, Thanks Elsie I think I understand the distain now. New Forged orders don't push out everyone that already has an order in for 8K, New Forged orders can't even order the 8K right now.... I thought that was clear. The Forged upgrade price does not include the 8K sensor. As I said new Forged orders don't push the existing orders out after we start shipping.

Everyone that purchased 8K @ NAB your orders are locked in and you are in that batch. 8K orders are closed till those start shipping. Forged Weapons do get priority once 8K orders open up again, but thats not until all those that already ordered the 8K have been sorted.

That would be a super dick move for us to take all the 8K sensors from that limited first batch that already have the names of those people on them that threw down for 8K @ NAB and give them to a bunch of random other guys that didn't just because they paid up.

The vast majority of Forged orders are customers that already have Carbon Weapons on order, and the 8K upgrade.

Check the Forged order page.. your not jumping the 8K line, 8K is not even an option for them yet:

http://www.red.com/store/products/limited-edition-weapon-forged-cf-brain-deposit


At any rate... sorry about that Ill update that first post as that incredibly vague " Forged has Priority on 8K " is what I assume is causing the confusion.
 
Jarred Land said:
Everyone that purchased 8K @ NAB your orders are locked in and you are in that batch. 8K orders are closed till those start shipping. Forged Weapons do get priority once 8K orders open up again, but thats not until all those that already ordered the 8K have been sorted.
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thanks Jarred, That was something that i was misunderstanding. definitely puts out the fire.
 
Jarred Land said:
O ok, ok, Thanks Elsie I think I understand the distain now. New Forged orders don't push out everyone that already has an order in for 8K, New Forged orders can't even order the 8K right now.... I thought that was clear. The Forged upgrade price does not include the 8K sensor. As I said new Forged orders don't push the existing orders out after we start shipping.

Everyone that purchased 8K @ NAB your orders are locked in and you are in that batch. 8K orders are closed till those start shipping. Forged Weapons do get priority once 8K orders open up again, but thats not until all those that already ordered the 8K have been sorted.

That would be a super dick move for us to take all the 8K sensors from that limited first batch that already have the names of those people on them that threw down for 8K @ NAB and give them to a bunch of random other guys that didn't just because they paid up.

The vast majority of Forged orders are customers that already have Carbon Weapons on order, and the 8K upgrade.

Check the Forged order page.. your not jumping the 8K line, 8K is not even an option for them yet:

http://www.red.com/store/products/limited-edition-weapon-forged-cf-brain-deposit


At any rate... sorry about that Ill update that first post as that incredibly vague " Forged has Priority on 8K " is what I assume is causing the confusion.
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thanks for the clarification Jarred! My sunday is at peace. '-) ... which reminds me I should thank you for working 7 days a week. '-)
 
Here I thought I was out...and they pull me back in.

Thank you very much

Fury
 
Jarred Land said:
O ok, ok, Thanks Elsie I think I understand the distain now. New Forged orders don't push out everyone that already has an order in for 8K, New Forged orders can't even order the 8K right now.... I thought that was clear. The Forged upgrade price does not include the 8K sensor. As I said new Forged orders don't push the existing orders out after we start shipping.

Everyone that purchased 8K @ NAB your orders are locked in and you are in that batch. 8K orders are closed till those start shipping. Forged Weapons do get priority once 8K orders open up again, but thats not until all those that already ordered the 8K have been sorted.

That would be a super dick move for us to take all the 8K sensors from that limited first batch that already have the names of those people on them that threw down for 8K @ NAB and give them to a bunch of random other guys that didn't just because they paid up.

The vast majority of Forged orders are customers that already have Carbon Weapons on order, and the 8K upgrade.

Check the Forged order page.. your not jumping the 8K line, 8K is not even an option for them yet:

http://www.red.com/store/products/limited-edition-weapon-forged-cf-brain-deposit


At any rate... sorry about that Ill update that first post as that incredibly vague " Forged has Priority on 8K " is what I assume is causing the confusion.
Click to expand...


So if someone orders a Forged Weapon right now, would they get it before someone who already has a Dragon to Mag Weapon upgrade on order? Would the same be for a CF Weapon?
 
Yes, Matthew. Forged is what is shipping now. Then we move on to fulfilling Woven Carbon upgrades/new orders. Then, Magnesium WEAPON....
 
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