Forged 6k Weapon and Carbon 6k Weapon Shipping Update

[Chad Lancaster]

I don't like to sound like I'm whining but... it seems that if a red owner committed early to the Weapon MG but later decides to spend the extra dough to get the CF instead (particularly since more info about specs and compression ratios etc. came out later) he shouldn't be punished and essentially have his previous order erased and be treated like he is placing a whole new order. Just my 2 cents.

If you get forged your jumping ahead of the normal CF line. End of line forged is way ahead of first in line MG. How are you getting punished for paying to get your camera sooner?

 

[Elsie N]

I don't like to sound like I'm whining but... it seems that if a red owner committed early to the Weapon MG but later decides to spend the extra dough to get the CF instead (particularly since more info about specs and compression ratios etc. came out later) he shouldn't be punished and essentially have his previous order erased and be treated like he is placing a whole new order. Just my 2 cents.

I understand your position, but if you look at the big picture you see that you are jumping in line ahead of those who made the leap to CF on blind faith, if your MG order was placed ahead of their (My '-) CF order.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Carbon Dragons sell for alot more than 50% of their value right now so it sounds like he didn't get the best deal. Carbon ( and Forged ) owners have 2 distinct advantages, one being the weight savings, and the other is time. Its a decision that is specific to each individual but from a financial standpoint, if you can rent or use your camera sooner because of demand that usually pays for the upgrade differences very quickly. There are quite a few Forged owners that already have earned that 10k gap.

I understand Red is becoming more rental camera model.Back in 2 years ago i rented my scarlet then upgraded to Red Epic.In last 8 months with Red Epic Dragon i wanna go into Owner Operator & Cinematographer model.Which suits me best if i want to buy Weapon? Since you stated Carbon and Forged models aimed rental business.I just dont want to be obsolescent.

 

[Stacey Spears]

Red is trying as hard as possible to take care of their customers, which makes the upgrade process so complicated. Must be a real pain in the rear to manage it all. This is no different than CF Dragon and EPIC-M in terms of taking care of those that pay extra to get sooner.

Jarred, or Brent, how far away are the new 7" LCDs from shipping? I sold my existing since I am planning to get the one designed for Weapon.

Will the 8k upgrade line, for Forged, be based on the order in which you received the Forged or the time stamp of when the actual order was placed back during NAB?

 

[sam renollet]

just wanted to share our experience with our new forged, it's an amazing camera, and we don't regret the extra cost, by the way it's still is cheaper than the
other brand's equivalent.
We like it so much that we just ordered a second one
Can't wait to see 8K footage ...

 

[Tarquin Cardona]

That is so pretty! Lucky

 

[Mark Andersen]

If you get forged your jumping ahead of the normal CF line. End of line forged is way ahead of first in line MG. How are you getting punished for paying to get your camera sooner?

Im looking on the bright side, the back of the CF line is still a little sooner than the beginning of the MG line. My decision to upgrade is only based in part on getting the camera earlier, it's mostly based on the camera it's self.

 

[Brian Merlen]

im not sure why everyone wants the weapon or 8k weapon to ship sooner to them, more time just means you get more return on your dragon costs... which works for me the lifespan of it was fairy short so I'm all for trying to get more of a return before my upgrade...

 

[PatrickFaith]

I'm impacted a bit by this new queuing policy, (i'm going epic dragon to weapon 8K so I bet by not paying the extra 10k i'll get my 8k in february if i'm lucky). [i btw really want/need the 8k for 4/3 anamorphic shoots where I'm having problems on some shots not having the normal backing height for anamorphics).

In the future what I'd like to see as a general policy so I don't get bummed out that I'm getting bumped a bit, is really two separate queues/production lines when new models come out:
1) New Camera Queue, paying the premium for the new camera gets you into this queue that is parallel to the upgrade queue
2) Old Camera Queue, totally separate queue, really is different since red has all the hassle of the camera turn ins (also "upgrading" older camera's to higher end models pushes you in that higher end model queue).

Most tech companies have initial pricing that is pretty expensive on brand new versions, I think this helps pay for R&D. We get a real good deal on the upgrades, it must barely pay for the R&D cost not even to mention the new production line. So I mentally think RED should just have two completely different production/queue lines which have totally different delivery schedules.

 

[Brian Merlen]

another thing i been wondering is i paid for carbon weapon and 8k but really don't need a carbon 6k, can I jump from epic dragon to 8k weapon or if i must do the 6k weapon upgrade first in between? I'm open to doing it if i have to, or if it costs me my spot in line not to do it, but i just am more interested in the big sensor than the small sensor when it comes to justifying this purchase vs staying on dragon or buying magnesium instead...another thing i wonder is what is the low end option they said is coming for the scarlet guys, its tough to decide for me in general atm

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

What I have learned is patience. I pushed the button on CF 6K Weapon upgrade same day NAB and I understand now that Forged takes precedence... No worries... I will wait.. And I was a beta on Epic... So everyone just relax. Epic Dragon is a great camera.
'
Don't whine, don't expect miracles .... It will all come when it comes... Don't expect 8K for some time.... But that will be OK.... I want Jarred, and Brent and Jim to be happy with all of it...

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

What I mean is that Weapon will come when Weapon comes... That is the nature of the beast.....

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Assuming 8K really starts shipping end of December ... RED is gonna need a bigger boat.

And this forum will be endless posts of people kicking and screaming ....

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

I'm impacted a bit by this new queuing policy, (i'm going epic dragon to weapon 8K so I bet by not paying the extra 10k i'll get my 8k in february if i'm lucky). [i btw really want/need the 8k for 4/3 anamorphic shoots where I'm having problems on some shots not having the normal backing height for anamorphics).

In the future what I'd like to see as a general policy so I don't get bummed out that I'm getting bumped a bit, is really two separate queues/production lines when new models come out:
1) New Camera Queue, paying the premium for the new camera gets you into this queue that is parallel to the upgrade queue
2) Old Camera Queue, totally separate queue, really is different since red has all the hassle of the camera turn ins (also "upgrading" older camera's to higher end models pushes you in that higher end model queue).

Most tech companies have initial pricing that is pretty expensive on brand new versions, I think this helps pay for R&D. We get a real good deal on the upgrades, it must barely pay for the R&D cost not even to mention the new production line. So I mentally think RED should just have two completely different production/queue lines which have totally different delivery schedules.

Further to what Patrick is suggesting, I believe those who were the early adopters should be first in line...and that goes back to the original R1's (which I still have BTW). I honestly didn't think my Epic-M's I would be so far in the queue as to be November or December when I finally get my Weapons...especially since I ordered within a couple of hours of the upgrade going live at NAB. I sincerely thought we would have our MG now with 8K option to be had by NAB at latest.

I suppose I was overly optimistic!

Granted, some of the early adopters are also purchasing the CF models, etc in addition to their upgrade paths...and I think that's OK. However, we now have those with financial means simply jumping the line and being rewarded with Weapons first. When one has invested hundreds of thousands of dollars of the years with Red, one expects some love. Yes, the loyalty program is great marketing and a wonderful philosophy -I just wished it counted for something more. And I hope this doesn't come across as having a bad attitude since even yesterday I have extolled the virtues of Red and Jim's vision to total strangers...

This is the open market of course, and I get the fact the CF and Forged units are ways to recoup faster on the R&D...I just happen to be disappointed I can enjoy the excitement sooner.

 

[Brian Merlen]

i like that i can at least get my hands on a camera though, even at a premium because wait lines for competitors have no way to get higher up in the line. so i think the system works well in that regard, plus for guys who don't want to a pay a premium you can still get a decent deal. locking in 8k and carbon when i did is probably not a bad idea based on what new MSRP is on 8k weapons i imagine, plus its as close as ill probably ever get to shooting 65 so to me this whole big sensor thing is kind of appealing in field of view differences. the glass for it is so cheap too, its not impractical to get canon, schneider, zeiss, and rokinon sets of vista vision PL glass that will cover and perhaps higher ended sets will soon adopt the larger image circle in the future? I'm debating forged but financially I'm probably better off waiting for the carbon, however the fact i could spend the 10k premium is pretty sweet vs my Feb wait list for competing options... some people probably can make quite a premium in that time and with deals like what credit companies do these days (21 month no interest citibank and such) it makes financing reds or premium reds not as unobtainable relative to rental rates on Alexa 65, which is the only other kind of similar sized chip I can compare to outside of maybe Phantom 65? This is a mainstream larger than s35 option and i think that may just be significant for some productions but who knows...

 

[Milan Spasic]

And this forum will be endless posts of people kicking and screaming ....

Not nice. The people who are "kicking and screaming" have been loyal Red groupies, myself included. I still love my Dragon, that doesn't mean that I have to love the business model though.

At this point I think it's clear that Red is dumping most of their early adopters, which mainly consisted of owner/operators, in favor of rental houses and rich hobbyists.
It's the way the cookie crumbles I guess. I'm hanging on to it for now though it may be a year before I see my Mg.

 

[Etienne Perrin]

Ok... What about the new customers who paid the deposit for a new camera, not an upgrate? I mean, is there an other line for that?

 

[Stacey Spears]

Ok... What about the new customers who paid the deposit for a new camera, not an upgrate? I mean, is there an other line for that?

Which camera? They are taking new orders for both Forged and Woven CF Weapons. I recall either Brent, or Jarred, posting that new orders will ship at the same time as upgrades.

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

I don't think that rental houses are getting any favorite nations treatment. There will be few rental houses that order Forged. So basically Red may have been shocked by the Forged orders and had to gear up for those and they are now trying to also gear up for CF Weapons.

The trade-in factor is still a cool business model considering that I am not aware of another camera manufacturer doing so. Is Arri giving trade-in credit on Arri M's for the new Alexa Mini? Doubt it

 

[Elsie N]

I come from the position of selling two Dragons so I could afford one CF Weopon + 8k sensor. I greatly benefited from RED extending the window for ordering and getting the sweetheart deal on the 8k sensor. (Thanks again Jim, Jarred, and Brent) And putting down deposit for CF Weapon and paying for the 8k sensor on the day before the window closed means I'm pretty close to Tail-end Charlie... which of course means that any Forged Weapon sales moves me further back in the line. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT!

And while I am accepting of whatever is decided, I am HOPING that new Forged orders do not move in front of me for an 8k sensor. A sensor that I have paid for even before the Johnny (or Johnetta) come-latelys have paid for theirs.

I have used all caps a couple of times in the above, so some may view this as a rant. I don't think it qualifies, but at any rate, rant over.