Footage Looks Dark After Export

[Adam Welch]

Over the weekend I shot some footage for a project went through and edited everything using Media Composer 7 Shots looked wonderful even in just the preview window. I go to export it and it comes out a lot darker than what I saw in the preview window, what I saw in both REDCINE-X and RED Player. I exported as an Avid DNxHD MOV file. Is there something I am missing or something I should know?

 

[Michael Romano]

Possibly the QuickTime Gamma bug from days of yore. Odd in DNxHD QT wrapped though, often rears its head on ProRes. Try rendering to a non-QT codec and compare.

 

[MichaelP]

Also check your settings on export - you can choose RGB or Rec.709. These pertain more to black and white point levels than anything else. If it looked fine in your source/record monitors, then select Rec.709 and nothing gets touched as far as levels go. If you select RGB, it will take what is 16RGB black level and make it 0, and 235 white and making it 255. Also note that Avid source/record monitors are not calibrated for any real color space and are there for editorial reference. Also, Avid is a Rec.709 system and DNxHD is a Rec.709 codec at heart. Use your scopes and a calibrated Rec.709 monitor. Most people will work in Rec.709 space and levels, then do and export to RGB for web and streaming deliverables.

Take a look at this whitepaper written by Job Te Burg: http://www.jobterburg.nl/Publications/601_709_RGB.pdf

Michael

 

[Adam Welch]

I have attached what my current export settings are and a screenshot of the clips side by side. As you can see in the screenshot the clip on the left is extra dark compared to what I see in the record monitor. I had this issue before and I fixed it, but I do not remember what I changed to fix the problem.

 

[MichaelP]

Don't encode directly from the QuickTime dialog box. Export a QuickTime reference; one as rec 709 and the other as RGB and look at it QuickTime 7 movieplayer. How does it look there?

Michael

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

Export an uncompressed file first and save alot of problems that the codecs do. Also try looking at the movie using vlc and se what it looks like.

 

[Adam Welch]

I am using AMA to bring in my footage and when I try to do a QuicktimeTime reference file it gives me an error. I used QuickTime 7 to look at the file I had already exported and it look better than it did in QuickTime X, but still looks darker compared to what I see in REDCINE-X.

 

[MichaelP]

You can't do a Quicktime reference of AMA linked material. You need to first transcode the sequence (picture and sound) to DNxHD, then export the transcoded sequence out as QuickTime reference. If you go out as Rec.709 in the settings, it should look the same as what you saw in the source/record monitors and that is only relative to each other and not related to any calibrated color spaces as you would have on a real Rec.709 monitor.

Michael

 

[Adam Welch]

So if it looks fine in QuickTime 7 I can trust it has exported correctly? No matter what I do things looks like crap in QuickTime X.

 

[Adam Welch]

Does Avid use ColorSync for it's color profile or does it use it's own internal system? Reason I ask is I went and changed the gamma setting to 1.8 in ColorSync and it appears to be exporting not so dark now.

 

[John Geronilla]

Adam,

I'm having the same issues. Any luck with the export?

 

[AlexJones]

Welcome to firkin AVID man lol. Avid MC is not meant to be an online editing tool. It's made to edit proxy files and then sends edl's to an online device like Avid DS. I think personally, It's retarded that avid still insists on doing things this way when we are all used to editing with online editors like fcp and premiere. Unfortunatly, people are so obsessed with "Whats Proffessional?! Whats professional?!" that they fall into the trap of avid and get themselves all effed up in the end. I'm no hater of avid. I'm a certified editor with avid and I put my time into it but if you aren't in a studio with thousands of dollars in equipment, then I would never cut with it. It's clunky, slow, things don't work and pop up menus tell you things like (promahkadfjkh.._jwj.. 845) and you are supposed to know what the problems are. Next time, I'd highly suggest using FCPX or Premiere. I use FCPX. It's fast, easy and when you cut, you feel like you're surfing. Super fast and flows like water. Weird to hear it but you'll understand when you get deep into a cut. Also, with Red files, you transcode all files to proxy. It's fast! very fast transcodes and then, once your cut is locked, you literally flip a switch and it comes back online! No edl's, no switching between apps. My favorite aspect to cutting in fcpx is the fact that it doesn't screw with your picture whatsoever. I've tested exports from Fcpx, premiere and Avid. Fcpx just comes out looking clean and untainted. premiere and avid (even fcp7) shifts the gamma and it doesn't look as good as the original. Anyways don't cut in avid or you will be dreading it.

 

[Job ter Burg]

Avid MC is not meant to be an online editing tool.

I beg to differ. QT codecs are often the culprit.

The simple rule with MC IMHO is that you need to stick to Avid codecs. Bring it in correctly, transcode into an Avid codec, then export Same As Source. This WILL keep proper levels. If you need subsequent encodings, do not use the Custom QT options inside MC, as they just use the buggy, lousy, QT encoder. Use Sorensen Squeeze (which you get with MC for free) or another encoder of your liking to create h264's and what not.

Also, do NOT compare what you see in the Source/Record monitor to the actual result. The S/R monitors are merely showing an uncorrected version of your source footage, and they do NOT compensate for the luma level differences between computer monitors and video monitors.

AFAIK, QT X is just an H264 player on AV Foundation, not even really QT, and it transcodes when you want it to play back QT files in non-h264 codecs. Not a great way to judge anything.

 

[nigelsmith]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but this is all very interesting for me.
What do you guys think of using VLC for judging exports?
It comes with all the Avid codecs installed, which is pretty useful when passing files to non Avid users.

 

[Ryan Lightbourn]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but this is all very interesting for me.
What do you guys think of using VLC for judging exports?
It comes with all the Avid codecs installed, which is pretty useful when passing files to non Avid users.

Not sure about Avid codecs, but I use it for ProRes exports...much more accurate than Quicktime.