Focus Assist

[S. Um]

Thanks for compiling that list, Gibby. That's about what I remembered reading, and I still don't understand it. But I know the Red folks have a lot on their plates, so I'll be patient. I'm sure you'll do a thourough review if it's available when your camera ships.

Having magic focus or not is really not a deal breaker for me. But I know there will be many times in EFP situations where I'll be the only camera operator, so I welcome anything that can make my life easier.

 

[Casey Green]

Gibby,

Thanks for taking the time to copy, paste, and organize all of these valuable posts from the RED team.

 

[chuck colburn]

From what I understand the inherent resolution of the EVF should allow critical focus, as in WYSIWYG. One thing that comes to mind though is does the EVF have a variable diopter to correct for different eyes?

 

[Poi Boy]

Thanks for the list Gibby, I look forward to getting my hands on.
Aloha
-A

 

[Alex Boothby]

"....we have two other modes of focus assistance...

a) Native pixel analysis : - i.e. zoom into a selected portion of the 4K image at a 1:1 ratio.

b) Focus Assist : - i.e. the graphical representation of the focus within a selected area of the 4K image (as previewed at NAB with a stills mockup)”[/I]

Stuart English

Does anyone know if both focus assist modes will work during playback? It would be helpful to review shots for circle takes.

 

[I Bloom]

From what I understand the inherent resolution of the EVF should allow critical focus, as in WYSIWYG. One thing that comes to mind though is does the EVF have a variable diopter to correct for different eyes?

I feel confident that it will have that feature. I think it goes without saying.

IBloom

 

[chuck colburn]

I feel confident that it will have that feature. I think it goes without saying.

IBloom

It might go without saying, but I found nothing either in the RED store under EVF or searching under EVF diopter to confirm this. Nor do the photos of the EVF show a focusing ring to indicate thus.

 

[Ace]

It might go without saying, but I found nothing either in the RED store under EVF or searching under EVF diopter to confirm this. Nor do the photos of the EVF show a focusing ring to indicate thus.

If Accuscene's EVF's were any good, I would bet that the RED EVF's are equally as good.

 

[chuck colburn]

Just asking.

 

[Nick Shaw]

The Accuscene certainly has a dioptre (p12 in http://www.accuscene.com/umvf1280sMkII.pdf) and although the RED EVF is not exactly the same device, I suspect a lot of info in that manual will still hold true.

 

[PaulClements]

Ok, so you have to forgive the cruedity of my suggestion, but I was thinking a focus assist could involve something like the attached. Personally I don't think such overlays get in the way of the framing, especially when your concern is on focussing at this point.

The Focus level dictates how severe the transparent focus overlay is, at 30% it gives a general fuzziness to the overlay around the focussed areas with the most in focus areas being warmer. With the focus level at 100% it picks out only the 0.08% (Made up figure) that the camera estimates is 100% in focus.

On fast moving subject matter (Such as the lizard in the picture) an actual visual representation would be quite intuitive in my mind. Being able to check the overlay in playback to be sure you'd got the shot would be good too.

 

[Ace]

Ok, so you have to forgive the cruedity of my suggestion, but I was thinking a focus assist could involve something like the attached. Personally I don't think such overlays get in the way of the framing, especially when your concern is on focussing at this point.

The Focus level dictates how severe the transparent focus overlay is, at 30% it gives a general fuzziness to the overlay around the focussed areas with the most in focus areas being warmer. With the focus level at 100% it picks out only the 0.08% (Made up figure) that the camera estimates is 100% in focus.

On fast moving subject matter (Such as the lizard in the picture) an actual visual representation would be quite intuitive in my mind. Being able to check the overlay in playback to be sure you'd got the shot would be good too.

Thats hot. Would love that. Although, with the waveform type display, it would essentially do the same thing.. I mean, a person operating a camera KNOWS where on screen the subject their trying to focus on is, so the waveform would be more of a honing device than a general instrument. Although it may work differently in my minds eye than in real life..

 

[Ace]

The Accuscene certainly has a dioptre (p12 in http://www.accuscene.com/umvf1280sMkII.pdf) and although the RED EVF is not exactly the same device, I suspect a lot of info in that manual will still hold true.

Looking at that manual, the Accuscene's are pretty insane pieces of machinery. They're like a small computers all on their own.

 

[PaulClements]

Thats hot. Would love that. Although, with the waveform type display, it would essentially do the same thing.. I mean, a person operating a camera KNOWS where on screen the subject their trying to focus on is, so the waveform would be more of a honing device than a general instrument. Although it may work differently in my minds eye than in real life..

(I presume you are talking about the current focus assist when you refer to the waveform type display)
True, I'm just trying to get my head around the current focus assist and using it in situations other than those that are controllable. For instance, setting up a person infront of a camera delivering dialogue, having markers for them to move to etc is a method that is well suited to the waveform in my mind. But it doesn't necessarily seem as intuitive when filming organic or fast random movements or using the camera handheld.

Say if I was doing a shot where I was running with the camera, quickly looking one way then the other, the scenery constantly changing shape, with objects moving in and out of the shot, the focus puller could perhaps remotely monitor the feed from the camera and if they can keep the specific varying area or object they want in focus within the 90-100% of the focus level you'd have quite accurate focus on a fast moving rapidly altering landscape, could make for some awesome shots that I'm unsure as to whether a waveform type display would be as intuitive, as you are using it as a reference rather than a representation. It'd take a great focus puller to do it still, yet would be an interesting tool for their arsenal.

Perhaps I'm being harsh on the current FA since I've seen very little and only read a few tidbits. Maybe up close and personal it's just as intuitive. Like I say I'm just struggling to get my head around how it would look and feel to use.

 

[S. Um]

Great idea, Paul.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Paul, would be fabulous if your diagram could be done via an algorithm, but I doubt it's easily possible, especially in the type of software that can run in real time in camera.

The idea behind the waveform is that you can see the height of the graph and know whether something is in or just partially in focus. This does help as then you can judge degree of focus.

Graeme

 

[AftonGrant]

Say if I was doing a shot where I was running with the camera, quickly looking one way then the other, the scenery constantly changing shape, with objects moving in and out of the shot, the focus puller could perhaps remotely monitor the feed from the camera and if they can keep the specific varying area or object they want in focus within the 90-100% of the focus level you'd have quite accurate focus on a fast moving rapidly altering landscape, could make for some awesome shots that I'm unsure as to whether a waveform type display would be as intuitive, as you are using it as a reference rather than a representation. It'd take a great focus puller to do it still, yet would be an interesting tool for their arsenal.

This is why I don't think anything can truly replace a good, human focus puller. The operative word in all this technology is "assist". The accuracy of focus becomes more critical as the resolution increases. Imagine its importance at 4k.

Any electronic focus assist that exists today is only reactive. It can only deal with what is currently in the frame (or what is in front of the lens). It does not know how the camera will move and how objects will come in and out of frame throughout the shot. If it is waiting for something to come into frame before doing its job, it is already too late.

 

[PaulClements]

Paul, would be fabulous if your diagram could be done via an algorithm, but I doubt it's easily possible, especially in the type of software that can run in real time in camera.

Creating a 4k Digital cinema camera isn't easily possible

 

[PaulClements]

This is why I don't think anything can truly replace a good, human focus puller. The operative word in all this technology is "assist". The accuracy of focus becomes more critical as the resolution increases. Imagine its importance at 4k.

Any electronic focus assist that exists today is only reactive. It can only deal with what is currently in the frame (or what is in front of the lens). It does not know how the camera will move and how objects will come in and out of frame throughout the shot. If it is waiting for something to come into frame before doing its job, it is already too late.

Shoot 2k and use the remaining screen real estate to focus as it comes into view.

 

[PaulClements]

This is why I don't think anything can truly replace a good, human focus puller. The operative word in all this technology is "assist". The accuracy of focus becomes more critical as the resolution increases. Imagine its importance at 4k.

Any electronic focus assist that exists today is only reactive. It can only deal with what is currently in the frame (or what is in front of the lens). It does not know how the camera will move and how objects will come in and out of frame throughout the shot. If it is waiting for something to come into frame before doing its job, it is already too late.

Though even if used in a relatively still shot just to focus on an object it would still be a valuable tool. You would simply set it to 100% and adjust the follow focus till you had the exact point you want in focus highlighted. Setting up the focus exactly where you want it for a shot would take but a moment - And not just by someone who is a veteran focus puller.