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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

First time finishing Red workflow from Avid - I am frustrated and confused

B

Brandon Lindquist

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A little back story, we finished shooting a low budget short film 2 1/2 years ago. Using the just then released Avid Media Composer 5, we linked to the R3Ds (4K 2:1 23.976) through AMA and transcoded to DNxHD (720p23.967). We synced and began editing with the transcoded clips. ---(Insert 2 1/2 years of editing and story changes here. Also many people moved on from the project.)--- Now we are ready to begin the online, color grading and prepare for(a lot of) FX work. A LOT has changed with Red. I now have Avid MC 6.5, RedcineX Pro was released, lots of stuff. Our original plan involved using Monkey Extract to do the online in Premiere Pro(or FCP) and grading in Color. (This plan is now failing)

Now, I don't care how I do it, all I want is a sequence that is identical to what I have in Avid but in 4K(minus FX and such). I've spent WEEKS reading, watching and testing dozens of different workflows. Many seem outdated. Most don't really apply to what we need to do. Nothing is working. I can't possibly list them all. Their have just been too many problems and I have no idea if I'm doing it right anyway. It is just frustrating that there isn't even a halfway standard way of on-lining Red footage from Avid. Every EDL/XML/AAF/ALE I send out to whatever software has problems relinking to the Red files.

My Available Tool Kit:
Avid Media Composer 6.5
Final Cut Studio 3
Adobe Master Collection CS6 (including SpeedGrade)
Monkey Extract
Blackmagc Resolve
Autodesk Smoke
Assimilate Scratch
Avid DS

We need to do A LOT of speed ramps and shot reframing so ideally we would online in Premiere Pro or something similar.


I've scoured to web for weeks for answers, can anyone point me in the right direction or offer any tips? I feel like I've watched and read it all, there must SOMETHING I'm missing.
 
Have you sent the AAF or AFE to Avid DS and following the conform guide for linking to files? As a fallback, have you tried an EDL just to see where the relink issue might exist? When you import the AAF into Resolve for example, do you see the timeline? What does the REEL ID have? Is it the full filename? Keep in mind that 720p is not the ideal workflow for 23.976/24 as 720p per SMPTE standards is a 30 frame format and the START timecode in that project may or may not reflect that correctly. Native 23.976/24 should be done as 1080.

Michael
 
- Decompose the timeline, by removing all effects, like speedramps, resize... All but hard cuts, the in and out points.
- Export an EDL, from AVID, use this template for EDL setting, that you copy into the Applications/Avid EDL Manager/SuportingFiles/EDL_Manager_Templates/ folder.
- Import the EDL in RCX, and relink to your R3D footage.
- Export XML for FCP in RCX.
- Import XML from RCX in Premiere.
- Use your offline render from AVID to re-create the ramps/effects.

There does not seem to be a away how to import speed ramps from AVID/FCP7 via XML/EDL into any Software package.
While simple "speedups" like 130% or 30% e.g. should work, they do not. Neither in RCX nor in DaVinci, nor from FCP7.

The decompose comes handy, when you want to round-trip the data for Color Grading in DaVinci.

In that case, setup and test the pipeline, before you re-build the edit in Premiere:

- So you would have a decomposed edit in CS6.
- Export this via XML to DaVinci.
- Import and rebuild the Timeline in DaVinci.
- "testgrade"
- Render Out into e.g. 1080p or 2k ProRes 4444 (whatever you are finishing as codec in)
- Export XML of the render
- import XML of render into Premiere

Now, if you rebuild the timeline, you are rebuilding from footage, that is linked to DaVinci.
So, if you encounter the need to correct a grading detail, during your finish in Premiere,
you need only to get back to the shot in DaVinci, correct the shot, render and overwrite,
and Premiere will automatically update without roundtripping.

Handles of 5 secs in DaVinci should allow for enough last minute changes in the finish.

The way how Premiere handles speed ramps is very intuitive. It beats avid and FCP in my opinion.
While the repetition of this tasks is frustrating, there is an opportunity in getting the ramps "better",
due to the level of intuition and control Premiere allows one to work.
 
Good overview with the following tweaks -

No need to remove any of the effects when doing a decompose. The decompose process only returns the original source clips used in the sequence, thus no effects on them. No need to load that template as Avid has been shipping the updated version for a while now and is named File_16 in the EDL templates. Choose that one when exporting an EDL.

Avid DS will read the speedramps, as well as titles, etc.

Michael
 
Great information guys! Thank you! I'll see what I come up with and post back as soon as I can.

MichaelP
"Have you sent the AAF or AFE to Avid DS and following the conform guide for linking to files?"
I struggled with sending a test AAF/AFE to Avid DS. I could not link to the Red files. Granted I had no idea what I was doing, but where is the guide you refer too?


(Also, I know you asked a lot of questions, but I was just looking information on the right way to do this more than trying to trouble shoot what I'm probably doing wrong)
 
Great post, Can anyone recommend a good De-noise tool to use for EPIC footage with MC6?

Thanks
 
Brandon Lindquist said:
Great information guys! Thank you! I'll see what I come up with and post back as soon as I can.

MichaelP
"Have you sent the AAF or AFE to Avid DS and following the conform guide for linking to files?"
I struggled with sending a test AAF/AFE to Avid DS. I could not link to the Red files. Granted I had no idea what I was doing, but where is the guide you refer too?


(Also, I know you asked a lot of questions, but I was just looking information on the right way to do this more than trying to trouble shoot what I'm probably doing wrong)
Click to expand...

Brandon

I have done countless conforms from MC/AFE in DS, it should be very simple and very fast.. maybe try asking at the google DS list - send email to ds-list@googlegroups.com
 
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