First R1 Feature Help

[Ryan Nichols]

I’m in pre-pro for my first feature on the R1 MX and I’m just wondering what pointers you guys have for getting the best image out of the camera both in production and in post. Things like shooting with tungsten indoors with no CTB on them. Should this be avoided? I know I’ve read something about the blue channel having to be activated. I know there are a ton of things I’m not thinking of. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

We shoot tungsten indoors with no CTB all the time on our two features. And it looks great. Just expose to the right and you'll be fine.

Stephen

 

[Adrian Sims]

On Blokes we taped an 18% Kodak grey card to one side of the clapper board and a siemens star to the other side. Used the star side to find critical focus then rolled camera and shot a few seconds of grey card at the start of each new set-up or camera move. We shot pretty quick this way and the grey card gave a valuable colour reference point to grade and match shots in post. We gelled our night shot lights blue to help the blue-channel a bit, but this was with a non-MX Red One, so I'll let MX shooters chime in there. Happy shooting and all the best with the feature

 

[Ryan Nichols]

Thanks! I’m just trying to get the best image possible. Any tips are welcome. Not just about the blue channel.

 

[Craig Weeding]

When shooting tungsten indoors with the RED One MX and the EPIC-M, we find that if you use the false color for exposure (green for 18% gray) often the top end of the sensor’s dynamic range of the is not being used, So we set the ISO for 320 or 400 instead of 800 this helps more light hit the sensor and reduce issues with noise in the blue channel when shooting tungsten.

If you are playing back from the Camera on the set, select 1080P playback and use a 23' -24" monitor that will show full 1080P. You might be surprised how much more detail you will see compared to using a 17" monitor that has a 720P panel.

Also shoot with a SSD module or CF card on the camera instead of a hard drive this reduces the size and weight especially for hand held work

Use a Matte box; keeping stray light of the lens improves contrast,

Use a Preston for the AC pulling focus, the AC can position themselves the best place to see the talent hit there marks and will not interact with the movement of the camera.

Create a look you like in REDCINE X and load the look in the camera.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

I can't speak for the Epic-M, but I CAN definitively say that Craig's comment on changing the ISO setting on the MX is incorrect.

In point of fact, changing the ISO setting has exactly NO impact whatsoever on the recorded RAW image on a RED One camera. What you are changing on the ISO is just the look of the image in REDColor. Change your view to RAW and you'll see that the actual recorded RAW image coming in on the histogram is completely unchanged regardless of the ISO setting. Set it at 320 or set it at 2000. The histogram (i.e., the recorded RAW image) will be completely unchanged.

I strongly suspect that this is true on the Epic, as well.

As a word to the wise (from an earlier post of mine), very few computer monitors actually will work with the RED when set to 1080p if you are using the HDMI port on the camera. (I believe this is also true with the HD-SDI connection, but I cannot confirm that.) However, virtually every television set DOES work with HDMI on playback. Bear in mind that 1080p is ONLY available on playback. You will still have a 720p image while setting up and recording.

If you are planning to do a lot of hand-held work, I cannot recommend the EasyRig system too highly. We do a lot of hand-held, and the EasyRig really saves the day. A lot of people on this forum will second that opinion.

Good luck.

Stephen

Stephen

 

[Paul Nordin]

I can't speak for the Epic-M, but I CAN definitively say that Craig's comment on changing the ISO setting on the MX is incorrect.

In point of fact, changing the ISO setting has exactly NO impact whatsoever on the recorded RAW image on a RED One camera.
Stephen

Stephen, This is true if you only change ISO. But I believe what Craig is saying is if you set your exposure for 320 (vs800) you would open iris to compensate and the result IS feeding more light to the sensor and improving the noise floor. In essence moving the histogram to the right...at the expense of less highlight protection. But that is easy to control in night interiors.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

I understand what you're saying, Paul, but since changing the ISO doesn't affect the RAW image in the least, what would be the point in doing so? In fact, there would be no point.

Now, if you want to open up the shutter and gain more light or decrease your depth of field, that's fine, but it is important to recognize that these changes actually do alter the camera's recorded RAW image, whereas the adjustment of ISO (to any level whatsoever) does not. ISO merely changes the LOOK of the image via REC-709 or REDColor.

Decreasing your ISO will certainly look different (darker) in the REDColor or REC-709 image in the viewfinder, I'll grant you, but that image isn't RAW and so you really don't know for certain what the camera is looking at. Indeed, exposing your image while looking only at REDColor is a recipe for possible serious exposure troubles.

I've been there. I've done that. I've bought several of those T-shirts. And I just hate to see anyone else have to buy those rotten shirts, too.



Stephen

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

1. Hire an exprienced DP who has shot on RED is my first advice. Unless YOU are the shooter looking for advice... then HIRE A GOOD A/C who is familair with RED.

If you cant afford an A/C and are a one man show... then

1. LEAVE it at 320 ISO (no matter what circumstance) the cameras is optiimal at 320 (search these boards and this point will be echoed by the MAJORITY of pros and RED) 320 for M-X (800 for EPIC) (yes others will argue why not to. ignore them - leave ISO at 320 for M-X) for the best RAW results in 99% of cases.
2. ALWAYS expose for highlight protection by using the histogram. The goal is a FAT negative between black and white but when in doubt. Expose to protect highlights (you will be amazed how much shadow detail you can pull from the blacks.) But iof you clip a highlight its like burning a hole in your negative. You cant fix it. Best to error to the side of it looking too dark in the LCD when monitoring and trusting that darks can be brought back in processing.
3. Tungsten has not really been an issue since the M sensor - Im just glad to hear you are using lights!
4. Get a Red Rocket card or hire one as 4K FULL Debayers are ideal when transcoding for offline or online.
5. use the CABOOSE EFFECT when determining what WORLKFLOW is best. What is your intended deliverable? Prores? H264? DNxHD? is Prores4444 good enough? (it is for most deliverables) then transcode to that (if your machine is fast enough) and you wont have to spend the $ on conforming and doing an online.

If you have time, Go to REDUCATION. Will be the best $ you ever spent

 

[Daniel Soderberg]

1. LEAVE it at 320 ISO (no matter what circumstance) the cameras is optiimal at 320 (search these boards and this point will be echoed by the MAJORITY of pros and RED) 320 for M-X (800 for EPIC) (yes others will argue why not to. ignore them - leave ISO at 320 for M-X) for the best RAW results in 99% of cases.

320 for MX and 800 for Epic? I thought it was 320 for Red M and 800 for Red MX...?

 

[Peter Dmitriyev]

it is 800iso for MX not 320... 320 is for M. Jim Jannard himself has stated multiple times he's considering removing all ISO's under 800 in the MX, that's how strongly he feels that under 800 ISO should NEVER EVER be shot on MX...

 

[Russ Fill]

Something I noticed when I first started to shoot on my RED One M sensor and now MX is that you tend to want to save the highlights and go a little safe. That is all well and good advice. I find that if I give up or don't go crazy on trying to save every highlight... IE. The whitest parts of clouds on a full sun day...just a little you tend to get what everyone has said a fatter histograph and you will be very thankful you did so when you try to save some very dark parts of your cine in post you wont be crying about noise in the shadows.
I use the little bars that start to appear on each end of the histograph to really know when something is being lost in the shot.
OH test test test and work it up in REDCine X/Pro to see what you have. When you start to see what you can get away with you wont be wondering if its there when you shoot it.
Use all the tools there for the exposure and cross check them... Histograph, stoplights, false color and find one that you like and then test a few times more using that one. Once you have shot some test and noted the f stop so you can reference you will get use to what the camera can and cant see.

Shoot a grayscale and or color or chip chart in the light you will be shooting in and the camera settings you will be using. You will be able to see how the histograph is reacting to this and what is going on with your whits and blacks. This will probably be the most important thing you will do as it will help post match looks from cine to cine and from camera to camera and over time you will have a group of presets that will help streamline setups for post.

Don't make the mistake thinking that the camera has unlimited dynamic range. It is a man made machine... It is an crazy great machine but you need to know how to use the camera and the tools it had built in to make them help you make the best pictures you can make.

 

[Jim Bishop]

When shooting tungsten indoors with the RED One MX and the EPIC-M, we find that if you use the false color for exposure (green for 18% gray) often the top end of the sensor’s dynamic range of the is not being used, So we set the ISO for 320 or 400 instead of 800 this helps more light hit the sensor and reduce issues with noise in the blue channel when shooting tungsten.

If you are playing back from the Camera on the set, select 1080P playback and use a 23' -24" monitor that will show full 1080P. You might be surprised how much more detail you will see compared to using a 17" monitor that has a 720P panel.

Also shoot with a SSD module or CF card on the camera instead of a hard drive this reduces the size and weight especially for hand held work

Use a Matte box; keeping stray light of the lens improves contrast,

Use a Preston for the AC pulling focus, the AC can position themselves the best place to see the talent hit there marks and will not interact with the movement of the camera.

Create a look you like in REDCINE X and load the look in the camera.

am intrigued by your advice re 'create a look in redcineX etc' - how do i go about doing that?