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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Finishing in 4K?

steve green

steve green

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I'm about to shoot my first job with the intention of 4K finishing. My question is should I be shooting 4K HD (as always) or just plain 4K (which seems to be larger)?. Shooting 5K is not an option due to the larger files, quick turnaround, and also possibility of HDRx (even more media).
 
I Dont think thats an area you will gain much by skimping in resolution.

For example, 20 hours of footage at 4kHD @5:1 is 3.6TB.

same thing at full 5k is 5.8 TB.

Thats only two more TB, and if you spread that across 10 days of shoot its only a measly 200gigs or so.

Go ahead and shoot full 5K. It will give you a nicer 4K master or more room for reframing in post.
 
Frank Cueto said:
I Dont think thats an area you will gain much by skimping in resolution.

For example, 20 hours of footage at 4kHD @5:1 is 3.6TB.

same thing at full 5k is 5.8 TB.



Thats only two more TB, and if you spread that across 10 days of shoot its only a measly 200gigs or so.

Go ahead and shoot full 5K. It will give you a nicer 4K master or more room for reframing in post.
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Frank,
We'll be shooting about 2 hours of material with a very quick turnaround (2 days) so the amount of media will matter. Also, I'm concerned if I use HDRx as well, it'll be burden. My client is not even transcoding to save time. Oh man!
 
just a question.. why are you finishing in 4k. What is your material being projected or viewed on.

Also, the quickest way to make a 4k export without transcoding is via Premier... Drop you files directly into the time, line, edit grade in the time line and press export to 4k DPX, PRORES etc etc etc etc...

but still curious to know what your needing a 4k finish for.
 
Mark Toia said:
just a question.. why are you finishing in 4k. What is your material being projected or viewed on.

Also, the quickest way to make a 4k export without transcoding is via Premier... Drop you files directly into the time, line, edit grade in the time line and press export to 4k DPX, PRORES etc etc etc etc...

but still curious to know what your needing a 4k finish for.
Click to expand...


I wish my client used Premier, yes that would be easy. They're a corporate in house production company with in house edit bays, all Avid. The content will be displayed now 1080 but they want to archive in 4K, with the thought they will eventually have a 4K monitor at their HQ with which to display footage. A large expense yes, but they're thinking ahead.

Mark, based on my situation would you go 4KHD or should I use the larger frame, 4K?
 
5K is a bigger sensor - very close to super 35 - this means all your lenses will perform better.
 
Do a workflow test prior to the start of production to make sure whatever you decide on will work. Take a couple of shots all the way through, and make sure it looks OK.

4KHD would be my vote as well.
 
Mastering in 4K with a fast turnaround is one of the few times I'd advocate 4KHD for a 4K finish. In most cases, I would advise 5K for a 4K finish due to Bayer pattern limitations.

Glad to see some folks are thinking ahead though, good on them.

Cheers - #19
 
I would also go for 5K and then downconvert from that to 4K. I would also look into a 4K prores 4:2:2 HQ workflow if you are not going native R3D editing. You can do that in FCPX, for example. Did a couple of tests with this and it works reasonably well. Didn't try audio export or Davinci Roundtriping with this, so do give this workflow a test before going this route.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
4KHD is mathematically an easy scale down to 1080 and should look very clean. 4K monitor specs are often in that size as well. http://www.tvlogicusa.com/product/product.php?model=LUM-560W and http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/lg-84lm9600/4505-6482_7-35117957.html

For theatrical, utilizing the full sensor allows you to maximize the image.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much the info, that's exactly what I needed to know! With the quick turnaround I'm trying to get this done right with no added delays in post.

This forum is awesome, I appreciate everyone taking the time to give their suggestions.
 
steve green said:
I wish my client used Premier, yes that would be easy. They're a corporate in house production company with in house edit bays, all Avid. The content will be displayed now 1080 but they want to archive in 4K, with the thought they will eventually have a 4K monitor at their HQ with which to display footage. A large expense yes, but they're thinking ahead.

Mark, based on my situation would you go 4KHD or should I use the larger frame, 4K?
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,
Personally... I'd shoot 5KHD (8-1) Data size is not that much more. I know you are worried about being a little bit data heavy. But I think 5k looks cleaner and not to mention better usage of the lenses..
However, if you worried about another gig... shoot 4k HD., If you shoot any other size, you will end up giving your time poor client another job to do which will be CROPPING the master to a HD format.
It's a pity they are AVID users... Thats the bottle neck right there.

Another way to do this quickly is create 4k PRORES files out of RCX. Then edit in FCPX in 4k in real time.... super fast then. :) and you stay in 4k for ever ...m tried it the other day. Works a treat.
I use all edit platforms, AVID, FCP7, FCPX and Premier.. FCP7 still being the fastest and smoothest to use.. Premier being the most FILE freindly... FCPX being the dog that could end up taking over the lead some day soon... AVID is sadly falling backwards at a great rate..
 
I know a lot of people will frown on jumping back and forth, but in shooting Natural history I often use 3k and 4k to punch in on subjects if I need a quick zoom. Orginally I worried about data sizes too, but found the 5k worked the best, and shoot everything on 8:1, and if I'm burning too much card space I drop it down to 10:1 but feel it still looks better over the 4k. In REDcine I just convert to 1080p.

In Redcine there is a function to crop, so select in the framing section for 16:9 centre cut or set it manually.
 
Mark Toia said:
Hi Steve,
Personally... I'd shoot 5KHD (8-1) Data size is not that much more. I know you are worried about being a little bit data heavy. But I think 5k looks cleaner and not to mention better usage of the lenses..
However, if you worried about another gig... shoot 4k HD., If you shoot any other size, you will end up giving your time poor client another job to do which will be CROPPING the master to a HD format.
It's a pity they are AVID users... Thats the bottle neck right there.

Another way to do this quickly is create 4k PRORES files out of RCX. Then edit in FCPX in 4k in real time.... super fast then. :) and you stay in 4k for ever ...m tried it the other day. Works a treat.
I use all edit platforms, AVID, FCP7, FCPX and Premier.. FCP7 still being the fastest and smoothest to use.. Premier being the most FILE freindly... FCPX being the dog that could end up taking over the lead some day soon... AVID is sadly falling backwards at a great rate..
Click to expand...

Thanks Mark,
I hear that all the time about AVID. I personally don't do much editing at all and are still trying to grasp all the "issues" I face with different edit systems from a production point of view. When my client brings our footage into his AVID and I get the "how are we going to deal with all this media" phone call, do you have any suggestions? The plan, I believe, was to use the AMA plugin to "point to the R3D's not to import them. From what I understand (not much) this works but it can be glitchy. I was thinking, rent a Red Rocket and transcode out everything to an AVID friendly file. Obviously more expense (which we don't have), but maybe worth it, your's (or anyone's) thoughts?
Steve
 
If you are finishing 4K you should be shooting 5K. It's a Bayer-pattern camera.
 
Tom Lowe said:
If you are finishing 4K you should be shooting 5K. It's a Bayer-pattern camera.
Click to expand...


Tom,
Are you saying I'll have a problem shooting half at 5KHD and half at 4KHD? Sorry, I don't know enough technically what Bayer-pattern camera actually means.
Steve
 
Now, the real challenge is. How do you finish on 4K if you shot on highspeed say 300fps which is 2K. Do you guys do upsampling ? if yes, with what ?

Rivai
 
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