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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Financing Scarlet (Or anything RED for that matter)

Bank Loan. Its actually cheaper than a mid ranged car. Explain this to the bank, explain your business, explain how a Red One MX after 4 years still is in use on the market and has strong resell value. That's how i got my financing for an Epic...
 
Jon Jones said:
I say don't finance anything... If you want it that bad, then save up the money. The borrower is slave to the lender...
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The thing is saving up in my current situation would take me a few years, and then camera, as opposed to financing, camera now, and way more chance of getting work, compared to every other bloke who has a canon ____
 
Sergio Perez said:
Bank Loan. Its actually cheaper than a mid ranged car. Explain this to the bank, explain your business, explain how a Red One MX after 4 years still is in use on the market and has strong resell value. That's how i got my financing for an Epic...
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Check your inbox please :)
 
Well said. Instead of buying right away, just rent a package when you need it. Let someone else deal with all the small accessory stuff you need when you have a truly flushed out camera package. It's not only the package you want to buy, you need to think about cases to house it all and insurance to cover it. It can get expensive and there's one thing I've learned over my 25 years in the biz, production gear is an infinite black hole of money. As you get work in, set aside a percentage and eventually you can pay cash for the Scarlet. I've never found going into debt for a camera or computers to be a good thing. They generally depreciate too fast.

That's my 2¢
 
phillip

phillip

 
Finance has a place. But if you're a slave to your finance to buy anything I wouldn't go that way. And if you are financing never go with the first offer from a lender. Remember they are a business and if they deem you safe financially don't treat it as though you have some amount of loyalty to them. Ask for a half percent discount, and if they won't apply somewhere else, get approval and ask them.

Then, finance is fine if you've got a plan and clients. If you don't have either of those, then well in this market you leave yourself open to the downside.

For someone like Timur who posted here earlier, he said he financed his F3, a no brainer really for someone who is sought after with talent like him.

The person I think who's shouldn't consider finance - someone who's a beginner or amateur who thinks owning a scarlet will get them a career in this field. That takes hard work and sacrifice and a modicum of talent. Now you might say - that's not true Joe Smith bought a red and his business did really well. Well that's because Joe Smith worked hard at it, sacrificed time and had some talent.
 
Noel Evans said:
Finance has a place. But if you're a slave to your finance to buy anything I wouldn't go that way. And if you are financing never go with the first offer from a lender. Remember they are a business and if they deem you safe financially don't treat it as though you have some amount of loyalty to them. Ask for a half percent discount, and if they won't apply somewhere else, get approval and ask them.

Then, finance is fine if you've got a plan and clients. If you don't have either of those, then well in this market you leave yourself open to the downside.

For someone like Timur who posted here earlier, he said he financed his F3, a no brainer really for someone who is sought after with talent like him.

The person I think who's shouldn't consider finance - someone who's a beginner or amateur who thinks owning a scarlet will get them a career in this field. That takes hard work and sacrifice and a modicum of talent. Now you might say - that's not true Joe Smith bought a red and his business did really well. Well that's because Joe Smith worked hard at it, sacrificed time and had some talent.
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Although you raise many important points and issues, I dont see how you equate that someone considering buying a RED camera doesn't acknowledge the hard work, dedication, and sacrifice it takes to make it in this industry, and sure everyone knows content is king, you can make great work with lesser cameras, but there is a reason so many people are on here, RED is on to something great, and has been for a long time. This is an investment for the future as much as it is an investment for the present.
 
If you can't afford it, don't buy it. But hey borrow if you want, start your business with your head under the water, and try to breathe when the bank is breathing down your neck for a payment and you didn't get enough business that month... Hey just something to think about.
 
Jon Jones said:
If you can't afford it, don't buy it. But hey borrow if you want, start your business with your head under the water, and try to breathe when the bank is breathing down your neck for a payment and you didn't get enough business that month... Hey just something to think about.
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I started this post to have a bunch of devils advocates, so all these responses are very helpful.

But onto this comment, jones, or anyone, do you think that applies to every business model? I mean I think that fact that its a tangible product, in this case a camera, makes it seem like its a bad idea. But put in perspective, its cheaper than a lot of cars as someone mentioned, and you dont hear people saying, listen if you cant buy the car in cash dont buy it, or the bank will be breathing down your neck. If one isnt wealthy what other options are there really, entrepreneurs would take years to start up businesses, 20k as start up money is nothing to most business ventures. People take out 30-50k + a year to go to schools here in the states, imagine an epic a year as opposed to in many cases some bullshit degree... Does 15-20k really seem like a bad idea? Im asking honestly.
 
Carlos Reyes said:
I dont see how you equate that someone considering buying a RED camera doesn't acknowledge the hard work, dedication, and sacrifice it takes to make it in this industry,
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Can you please re read my post. I dont say anywhere anything that says - or similar to "I equate someone considering buying RED doesnt acknowledge hard work dedication and sacrifice". I said and Ill quote myself : "The person who I THINK shouldnt consider finance - someone who is a beginner or amateur who things owning a scarlet will get them a career". And then went on to say what getting a career takes.

I would say the same of any camera. Its not just related to RED. I stand by these words.
 
Noel Evans said:
Can you please re read my post. I dont say anywhere anything that says - or similar to "I equate someone considering buying RED doesnt acknowledge hard work dedication and sacrifice". I said and Ill quote myself : "The person who I THINK shouldnt consider finance - someone who is a beginner or amateur who things owning a scarlet will get them a career". And then went on to say what getting a career takes.

I would say the same of any camera. Its not just related to RED. I stand by these words.
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Sorry man, poor choice of wording on my part, I completely agree with your entire statement.

definitely, its about cameras in general, I'm in the process of upgrading my system, researching a few cameras Scarlet being on of them
 
Carlos, I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from, and you can do whatever you want, but taking a loan out for an item that doesn't do anything but take pictures and moving pictures is not smart. It won't get you to work, so you can't use taking a loan out for a car as an analogy, it won't cover you when it's raining, it won't shelter you at all. I mean really in my mind, there is no possible way that a business model is going to work perfectly, so it's not going to go the way you want all the time, because you have to rely on other people to get there. But on the other habd, starting a business debt free leaves all of your options open.

Carlos Reyes said:
I started this post to have a bunch of devils advocates, so all these responses are very helpful.

But onto this comment, jones, or anyone, do you think that applies to every business model? I mean I think that fact that its a tangible product, in this case a camera, makes it seem like its a bad idea. But put in perspective, its cheaper than a lot of cars as someone mentioned, and you dont hear people saying, listen if you cant buy the car in cash dont buy it, or the bank will be breathing down your neck. If one isnt wealthy what other options are there really, entrepreneurs would take years to start up businesses, 20k as start up money is nothing to most business ventures. People take out 30-50k + a year to go to schools here in the states, imagine an epic a year as opposed to in many cases some bullshit degree... Does 15-20k really seem like a bad idea? Im asking honestly.
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Jon Jones said:
Carlos, I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from, and you can do whatever you want, but taking a loan out for an item that doesn't do anything but take pictures and moving pictures is not smart. It won't get you to work, so you can't use taking a loan out for a car as an analogy, it won't cover you when it's raining, it won't shelter you at all. I mean really in my mind, there is no possible way that a business model is going to work perfectly, so it's not going to go the way you want all the time, because you have to rely on other people to get there. But on the other habd, starting a business debt free leaves all of your options open.
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Personally I buy all my gear outright now, but I've been in business producing video both on a social/event side as well as commercial side for over 12 years. When I started however, it was straight out of film school with no money so it was either, take a loan for $10,000 or save that money up for another year or two. Since I wasn't making much at work it would have potentially put me two years out of my plan for things and renting was more expensive over time than simply buying the gear I wanted. Not having the equipment will definitely not pay anything so there is nothing wrong guys with taking loans if you are responsible and can pay them off. Sometimes if you look at things on a cost standpoint, a 20,000 loan can be as low as 300 - 400 a month. if you are pro active in this industry, you can shoot a birthday party or an event freelance for this money but it may take years to bank that much.

My recommendation is if you can swing the cost of the loan every month without putting yourself into dangerous territory, and can pay and be prepared to pay that loan while you proactively build your business, go for it. If you are the type to simply get the gear and do nothing with it, don't buy anything or buy a DSLR and start making money off of that. Hell, buy a used Canon DSLR and good L lenses over time and you can get away with some decent, even great footage with it and make money. Then once ready, and when RED would benefit you, then buy the RED and use the Canon mount for while with your Canon lenses.

Point is don't take a loan unless you know you are comfortable with it. It does feel very liberating being able to purchase gear without financing anything and owning it outright, however I wouldn't be where I am without those early loans.
 
Eric J said:
Personally I buy all my gear outright now, but I've been in business producing video both on a social/event side as well as commercial side for over 12 years. When I started however, it was straight out of film school with no money so it was either, take a loan for $10,000 or save that money up for another year or two. Since I wasn't making much at work it would have potentially put me two years out of my plan for things and renting was more expensive over time than simply buying the gear I wanted. Not having the equipment will definitely not pay anything so there is nothing wrong guys with taking loans if you are responsible and can pay them off. Sometimes if you look at things on a cost standpoint, a 20,000 loan can be as low as 300 - 400 a month. if you are pro active in this industry, you can shoot a birthday party or an event freelance for this money but it may take years to bank that much.

My recommendation is if you can swing the cost of the loan every month without putting yourself into dangerous territory, and can pay and be prepared to pay that loan while you proactively build your business, go for it. If you are the type to simply get the gear and do nothing with it, don't buy anything or buy a DSLR and start making money off of that. Hell, buy a used Canon DSLR and good L lenses over time and you can get away with some decent, even great footage with it and make money. Then once ready, and when RED would benefit you, then buy the RED and use the Canon mount for while with your Canon lenses.

Point is don't take a loan unless you know you are comfortable with it. It does feel very liberating being able to purchase gear without financing anything and owning it outright, however I wouldn't be where I am without those early loans.
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Its great to hear both sides thanks for the input Jon and Eric, and its great to hear success stories like this, sometimes you have to take risks
 
There is another component I wanted to come back and add. If you were to obtain a loan for your Scarlet NOW, and decide in 6 months its all too hard. Will the price of your scarlet have depreciated? Actually and this is the interesting one - probably not. I say interesting because generally everything depreciates the minute you pay your money. But Red have already announced that after Jan 1. Price of the Scarlet will go up and demand should still exist.
 
Noel Evans said:
There is another component I wanted to come back and add. If you were to obtain a loan for your Scarlet NOW, and decide in 6 months its all too hard. Will the price of your scarlet have depreciated? Actually and this is the interesting one - probably not. I say interesting because generally everything depreciates the minute you pay your money. But Red have already announced that after Jan 1. Price of the Scarlet will go up and demand should still exist.
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I would guess that Scarlet wont depreciate in value for years to come, even those without Dragon upgrade. Thats the only reason a loan is even a consideration. imagine how much C300 will depreciate, Canon will probably replace it within 12-18 months... Shit they've already supposedly brought it down a few thousand before even releasing it, wonder which camera is responsible for that lol
 
The fact that the price rises at the start of Jan 1 alone is almost a lock to be able to hold it's current value for the time being. Part of the reason I was ok making the purchase in case I'm not finding as much work as I currently am...without a camera...
 
I would go with Eric J and buy maybe a 5DMII, or a 7D even, with some canon lenses. Your looking at way less than half the investment when it comes to the peripheral gear. I spent $30,000 in the RED store in a matter of 24 hours, and I still need some things. The 5DMII's keep their value really well too. A lot of people are using them, and will continue in the future.
 
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