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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Final Cut Studio... and 4k..?

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Marco Iannaccone

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I know Final Cut Pro 6 and Color can't deal with 4k files, because QuickTime can deal wth files with max 2k resolutions.

So... without using softwares like Scratch, etc... how can I color correct and finish the video at 4k, using Final Cut Studio?

I know I can edit in Final Cut Pro with lover resolution proxie files, but how can I then conform the edited material to the final 4k video?

Thanx
 
not with final cut studio, but with after effects, its slow, you will have no playback, pain in the ass, but it will work.
 
If you need 4k is to make a film transfert (today there is not much other screening solutions). If so, I think, you have to do a Scratch/Lustre/eQ/Davinci/Speedgrade type of color correction to get the most of your footage. 4k to 35mm with Arrilaser is 1000$/minute so the colormatching in 4k is woth to do it well.

2k transfert to 35mm is also very beautyfull and still is standard for DI.

See you.

Pat
 
For 4K editing - its Adobe Premiere Pro.

Enhanced with cineform, you don´t even need a massive diskarray, an today usual PC from Apple or others will do. It also conform nicely at >=10bit RGB.

If you want to do multitrack realtime 4K, with realtime colorcorrection (in 4k), realtime blurs (in 4K) etc, then there is DVS Clipster.

Final Cut pro sadly is limited to 2k in 8bit rgb.
Apple really should improve their core software technology in FCP, not only the wicked QT 7.4.

Btw, i didn´t check motion with 4k footage yet. Is it also limited to 2k?
 
Tresch said:
4k to 35mm with Arrilaser is 1000$/minute so the colormatching in 4k is woth to do it well.
Click to expand...
It seems the prices are much lower here in Berlin - we rarely see more than 30-45K prices for a 90min fullfeature with the 4K Arrilaser.
 
Tresch said:
If you need 4k is to make a film transfert (today there is not much other screening solutions). If so, I think, you have to do a Scratch/Lustre/eQ/Davinci/Speedgrade type of color correction to get the most of your footage. 4k to 35mm with Arrilaser is 1000$/minute so the colormatching in 4k is woth to do it well.

2k transfert to 35mm is also very beautyfull and still is standard for DI.

See you.

Pat
Click to expand...

This is probsbly the solution I' going to use: shoot 4k, FCP for editing (proxies), Color for color correction and conform (at 2k), 2k film trasfer for distribuition.
 
K.Berlin said:
not with final cut studio, but with after effects, its slow, you will have no playback, pain in the ass, but it will work.
Click to expand...

I can't, anyway, batch import my final edit to After Effects (using, for example, EDLs), right?
 
Can someone go into more detail about what the difference would be in terms of final results comparing fcp color with ae for cc? And maybe include in the mix the speedgrade...

The process is one aspect, time saving, hassles etc but as far as the eye is concerned can the same end results be achieved using these different routes or whats the deal?

Thanks Amigos!

Dog Day.
 
What about having a 4k 10 bit AJA or BlackMagic YUV or RGB 4096x2048 uncompressed to Online from your offline 1K or 2K Pro res? Then use FCP to color correct, export to 4k DPX. FCP isn't the best CC tool though... I havn't seen if I can import the file into color yet, but other than playback everything seems ok with FCP. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Color just crashes.

Is there something wrong with using custom frame sizes from FCP or QT pro? Any reason its being avoided? 4096x2048 is easily achievable in any codec.

For After Effects I have been playing with Magic Bullet Colorista, it has a little more control and is about the same layout as FCP 3-way.
 
x86box said:
For After Effects I have been playing with Magic Bullet Colorista, it has a little more control and is about the same layout as FCP 3-way.
Click to expand...

After Effects has a hidden 3-way color corrector that does not show up in the plugins list, but its there and you can use it if you export something from premiere to AE. Then you can copy paste and use for AE only projects. The standard CC for AE is 2-way.
 
Marco Iannaccone said:
Thanx.
It looks very interesting.

Did you experience this workflow, also at 4k?Would you advise it for movie projects?
Click to expand...

Automatic Duck workflow is useful for small projects. However, I have faced inconvenience because of the way AE stacks up all clips even if they were on a single track in FCP. Your typical movie project would have hundreds of edits and unless you break them and pass through Automatic Duck partially, it may be cumbersome.
 
Joofa said:
Automatic Duck workflow is useful for small projects. However, I have faced inconvenience because of the way AE stacks up all clips even if they were on a single track in FCP. Your typical movie project would have hundreds of edits and unless you break them and pass through Automatic Duck partially, it may be cumbersome.
Click to expand...

Right... I forgot that After Effects needs a different layer for each clip in the project...

So... it seems, in my situation, that the best workflow is:
- shooting 2k (so I can also shoot 48 fps and 72 fps, for later slow motion)
- import to redcine and esport to a format for editing in FCP (ProRes Full HD...)
- send the project to Color for conforming and color correction, with final esport at 2k, for Arrilaser (or similar...)
 
It's not strictly true that FCP doesn't support 4K. With the new Red Alert, try this:

1. Open 4K clip.
2. Go to render.
3. Select QuickTime as the output format.
4. Select RAW as the codec.
5. Select a full debayer.
6. Don't tell Red Alert to scale.
7. Output.

You will end up with a 4K uncompressed RGB QuickTime movie. Drop this into a Final Cut Project, and then into an empty sequence. FCP will ask you if you want to set the sequence to match the settings of the footage. Say yes.

If you look at the properties of this sequence, FCP will report it as 4000x2048 (for a 2:1 clip)... not quite 4K. However, if you export the sequence as XML, it shows up as being 4096x2048, and if you export it to a QuickTime movie, that movie is 4096x2048; the 4000 pixel limit in FCP seems to just be a GUI limitation, not an actual limitation.

Caveats:

- FCP is 8-bit only in RGB mode.
- Color doesn't support anything over 2K, so it can't be part of this workflow.
- File sizes are massive. Real-time playback or anything close to it is either impossible, or would require a very large RAID.
- I haven't done any sort of performance testing. Or much testing at all, really.
- After you've rendered out your sequence, what do you do with a 4K uncompressed QuickTime file anyway?

I also tried the above sequence of actions using ProRes instead of RAW. This results in a file that's only 65 MB for a second of footage (rather than upwards of 500 MB). Everything seemed to work in FCP, but opening a 4K ProRes file in QuickTime Player crashed the entire computer (Repeatably.) And, of course, the catch here is that ProRes is 4:2:2.

Anyway... this probably isn't useful for much at this point, but it's interesting, and it suggests that with a few more components added to the equation (like full-quality 4K QuickTime proxies that show up as 10-bit YCbCr in Final Cut), one could have 4K conforming from Final Cut Pro (with final output to, say, DPX through GlueTools) directly from compressed source footage.

(Note that I maintain my stance that there's essentially no market case for ultra-low-budget 4K at the moment. If your movie is going to be showing somewhere where 4K matters, you probably have the budget for SCRATCH.)
 
Chris Kenny said:
It's not strictly true that FCP doesn't support 4K. With the new Red Alert, try this:

1. Open 4K clip.
2. Go to render.
3. Select QuickTime as the output format.
4. Select RAW as the codec.
5. Select a full debayer.
6. Don't tell Red Alert to scale.
7. Output.

...

(Note that I maintain my stance that there's essentially no market case for ultra-low-budget 4K at the moment. If your movie is going to be showing somewhere where 4K matters, you probably have the budget for SCRATCH.)
Click to expand...

Thanx for your post, it's extremely interesting. I'm deciding to use 2k for all teh pipeline, so I can use 48 and even 72 fps when shooting (if needed), can, for esample, use 1080p ProRes or 2k ProRes for editing in FCP, and export to Color for conforma and color granding, than export to DPX for a film writer (I don't know the price for 2k film writing in Italy, anyway), since movies in Italy are 99% times projected from film.

Anyway, what's the price for a software-only Scratch? And what about the hardware one?
 
scratch is a turnkey system....you will get the software and the recommanded hardware....its in the $$$$$ Range, and if i had the money i would definitly buy it for myself....

and check chris homepage, really informative....
@chris : nice discovery with the 4k quicktimes
 
K.Berlin said:
scratch is a turnkey system....you will get the software and the recommanded hardware....its in the $$$$$ Range, and if i had the money i would definitly buy it for myself....
Click to expand...

Well... something nearer to... 30000$, or... 99999$?

[QUOTE
and check chris homepage, really informative....
@chris : nice discovery with the 4k quicktimes[/QUOTE]

Thanx.

Can you post the URL?
 
Marco Iannaccone said:
Well... something nearer to... 30000$, or... 99999$?

[QUOTE
and check chris homepage, really informative....
@chris : nice discovery with the 4k quicktimes
Click to expand...

Thanx.

Can you post the URL?[/QUOTE]

indie4k.com

more in the 50 000 - 70 000 area...
if you really want some further informations contact lucas wilson....he is one of the mods (luki) or look here :http://www.assimilateinc.com/
 
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