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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Final Cut Rumor......2013 :(

Ben Brainerd said:
In all honesty are we really surprised? The Pro-Video apps have been effectively ignored by Apple for a few years now.
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They're working on a major rewrite. Even this latest largely pessimistic rumor confirms that. Final Cut Studio has traditionally been on a two year release cycle. Expecting a major rewrite to take at least twice that long is not remotely unreasonable, and they're not at that mark yet (even measuring from FCS2, the last full-scale upgrade).

And I really don't think they'll lose all that many customers if it takes them another year to ship something. Avid Media Composer is significantly more expensive and while it has native R3D support, it's missing many other things Final Cut Studio has (motion graphics, serious color correction, etc.) and is much more limited in terms of what video I/O hardware it supports. Meanwhile, Premiere Pro has some flashier features, but still isn't as mature as a professional editing platform. One big issue is that Adobe currently lacks an answer to ProRes/DNxHD, which in my experience are used very widely for file-based workflows, and would be even if Final Cut had native R3D support -- most editors don't have a Rocket, and native R3D playback tends to bog things down without one.

This industry is pretty conservative; not many shops are really going to switch just Apple takes a year longer than would have been desirable. We run into editors who run a year or two behind on NLE upgrades anyway. Speaking from personal experience, after two and a half years of Red workflows we weren't really happy with, we're finally settling in on something we like with RCX transcodes, FCP 7 editing, Resolve color grading (off trimmed R3Ds), and round-tripping from Resolve to Final Cut (via some custom in-house scripts). We're not looking to totally shake things up again right now.
 
Its just a RUMOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Apple hates to lose and they have all the money in the world im sure there will be an update very soon.

I love how people take rumors as fact and then have entire conversations as though this is really happening.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
That said, are people really waiting around for Final Cut Studio? Really? Heh, whatever.
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My previous comments aside, this is pretty much how I feel as well. The only reason I still have Final Cut installed is that some of my clients don't get EDLs, so I have to XML into FCP before dumping everything to Color. And Color will be going away once I update my machine for Resolve.
 
Mmmmm, i am on CS5 editing .r3ds without a rocket, althoug i really want one, you can do very well without one. For post houses doing RED work, FCP is the worst option right now Avid and Adobe are replacing FCP quite well. Ppro is stable, mature and multi format, and Avid is still Avid, but better than ever.
There is no need of prores or dnxhd if you can run native realtime, really, think about it. At least not for editing, CS5 workflow is smooth, some people should try it, i read a lot of posts asking for things you already have in Ppro or Avid. You don't have to abandon anything, prices are really affordable, you can add soft to your business, it is not a bad idea, if you need photoshop and after effects you can have Ppro almost for free. It is a no brainer.
 
Apple hasn't been doing much in the way of ANY computer software lately. OS X, iTunes, Final Cut, etc have become so popular in their current forms that they've had barely more than superficial changes for the last few years. The last big thing change was moving to Intel and dropping PPC support. It's all about the iPhone and the iPad these days.

The main thing FCS needs is a rework of the Color interface, and major improvements in Soundtrack's performance and stability. FCP itself is great, and STP and Color have great potential, they've just got too many quirks to be reliable. I've never used Motion, but Apple would have to make it really incredible to compete with AE.

Adobe, on the other hand, ought to just throw Premiere away and start over.
 
IMHO Adobe needs to do what is doing, regaining market and listening to it's user base, just read the adobe forum and talk to Dave! Try Ppro with RED material and tell me how is FCP better.



Sam Eilertsen said:
Apple hasn't been doing much in the way of ANY computer software lately. OS X, iTunes, Final Cut, etc have become so popular in their current forms that they've had barely more than superficial changes for the last few years. The last big thing change was moving to Intel and dropping PPC support. It's all about the iPhone and the iPad these days.

The main thing FCS needs is a rework of the Color interface, and major improvements in Soundtrack's performance and stability. FCP itself is great, and STP and Color have great potential, they've just got too many quirks to be reliable. I've never used Motion, but Apple would have to make it really incredible to compete with AE.

Adobe, on the other hand, ought to just throw Premiere away and start over.
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The naivety of a large number of members of this site is just astounding. I find this RUMOR hard to take seriously. I highly doubt we will see a FCP update in 2010, but citing Shake and Motion developers having issues with each other? Since when is Apple still developing shake at all?

the article is drivel. . .

A full overall would be great, but to be perfectly honest, give Storm full multi-format support, beef up the editing tools just a bit more, and I am happy.
 
it is just another rumor yes. barely deserves mention at this point. but we've been waiting a long long time. i bought an 8 core machine from apple in 08 thinking i might take advantage of multithreaded possibilities someday, still waiting. i'm still running final cut but i'm moving to avid as soon as i can. really looking forward to a storm/avid workflow in future too.
if final cut dropped tomorrow, even with the major rewrite i'd go elsewhere. i just don't want to give a company like apple my money. its a broken record to say this but they don't care anymore. we can't peep behind the iron curtain but i couldn't be less convinced they are working hard on an update and want to get it out to us as soon as possible.
apple is coasting by on its former glory in this market segment. i think its a great thing their competitors are working hard to leave them behind and steal that market share, means better options for us all. bring on mc6 and storm 2013.
and so far as steve jobs is concerned. i have about as much belief that what's coming is 'Awesome' as i do an oversized iphone is 'revolutionary.' or 'magical' for that matter
 
Chris Kenny said:
Meanwhile, Premiere Pro has some flashier features, but still isn't as mature as a professional editing platform. One big issue is that Adobe currently lacks an answer to ProRes/DNxHD, which in my experience are used very widely for file-based workflows, and would be even if Final Cut had native R3D support -- most editors don't have a Rocket, and native R3D playback tends to bog things down without one.
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BBC just added 2000(!) seats of Premiere. They use it since 2007 as the company’s primary tool for PC-based nonlinear editing and post-production.

Sounds a bit as a mature solution in my book. :coolgleamA:

Premiere reads ProRes and reads and writes DNxHD. It also is crossplatform compatible wit FCP via XLM files. You just can throw a FCP timeline at Premiere and vice versa.

I can edit 4k Red RAW in Premiere (without a Rocket) on a half way decent PC with a $180 Nvidia card, like it would be DVCProHD or DV. No bog down here.

I don`t get the point. No offense here, but I have the feeling, that a lot of people (and not only here) that talk about Premiere have no first hand experience.

Frank
 
Frank Glencairn said:
Premiere reads ProRes and reads and writes DNxHD. It also is crossplatform compatible wit FCP via XLM files. You just can throw a FCP timeline at Premiere and vice versa.

I can edit 4k Red RAW in premiere on a half way decent PC with a $180 Nvidia card like it would be DVCProHD or DV. No bog down here.

I don`t get the point. No offense here, but I have the feeling, that a lot of people (and not only here) that talk about Premiere have no first hand experience.
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The point is: once you add VFX, color, etc. what format is your footage in?

In Avid it is DNxHD, in FCP it is ProRes. These are full 1920x1080, at least 4:2:2, offer scalable datarates from offline -> online, can have alpha and can be 10-bit. In ProRes4444's case, 12-bit (although deduct a point for all of the gamma issues :).

What comparable format does Premiere use? You have to buy Cineform.

That's a big disadvantage for folks doing stuff themselves. The BBC are probably using low-end Premiere stations for cutting, and high-end Premiere stations (or other systems) for finishing so they don't have this problem.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
As long as you have it on the timeline it stays the native format. There is no rendering going on. Pemiere is fast enough to add color, VFX, transitions etc. in realtime like a layer without actually touching the material. The effects got only baked in at output - at the format/codec of your choice.

As I said Premiere speaks also ProRes and DNxHD.

Frank
 
Brad Hawkins said:
Mark, do you know (or can you say) if STORM will have Avid integration at some point? I mean similar to the XML workflow they've shown with FCP.
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100% ON AVID INTEGRATION. Won't be ready for Nov. 1 release - but it's coming.

100% on secondaries with shapes, roto, etc. - it's really going to melt people's brains.

Multi-layer timeline in this Friday's new alpha build.
 
More lame FCS rumours. I dont care about these rumours at all, I will wait for the facts to come from Apple.

in reference to the people who say Apple is hurting itself by delaying FCS 3...

How many FCS users who buy Premier Pro do you think will NOT switch back to FCS when FCS 3.0 drops and its awesome?
 
Rumor or not, the fact that my editors aren't automatically balking at the mere mention of switching our offline to Premiere says a lot about their frustration level with FCP as far as Red post goes.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
100% ON AVID INTEGRATION. Won't be ready for Nov. 1 release - but it's coming.

100% on secondaries with shapes, roto, etc. - it's really going to melt people's brains.

Multi-layer timeline in this Friday's new alpha build.
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You don't say... :)
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
100% ON AVID INTEGRATION. Won't be ready for Nov. 1 release - but it's coming.

100% on secondaries with shapes, roto, etc. - it's really going to melt people's brains.

Multi-layer timeline in this Friday's new alpha build.
Click to expand...

Multi format timeline?

G
 
Frank Glencairn said:
BBC just added 2000(!) seats of Premiere. They use it since 2007 as the company’s primary tool for PC-based nonlinear editing and post-production.
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Look, Premiere is certainly getting there, version by version. But it's sort of in the position Final Cut was in early in the decade, when people started using it for feature film editing. It can be used for some professional workflows, but it's not 100% solid, and there just isn't quite enough of an ecosystem (community, third party workflow integration, etc.) built up around it yet.

Frank Glencairn said:
I don`t get the point. No offense here, but I have the feeling, that a lot of people (and not only here) that talk about Premiere have no first hand experience.
Click to expand...

We evaluated CS5, to see if it served a useful role in our workflow. The answer was basically "no". As a post house, we have to work with the software other people are using, which mostly isn't Premiere. The Mercury Engine is nice, but it doesn't work with the computers a lot of editors are working on, whereas 1080p ProRes HQ is perfectly editable on three year old laptops. And Premiere still has a couple of very silly feature omissions, like an inability read timecode out of audio files.

If you find Premiere useful today, that's great. But I wouldn't be expecting mass-scale migration.
 
I do have faith that FCP will get to the level that people expect from it. FCP 7 in my opinion was a joke. I see it has a minor upgrade in order to maintain compatibility with 10.6 Snow Leopard. I think even with the next version, we will see leaps and bounds. My FCP 7 does tend to get buggy especially when I NEED it to work smoothly. Seems to happen at the worst times.

Having said that, I'm confident that Apple understands the needs of it's Pro customers, but it is a business. So that means focusing on iPods and iPhones and apps for iOS (where Apple makes it's cashflow)...

Will I hang around and wait for this next iteration of FCP.... ? We'll see..
I have a feeling I'll jump ship to Autodesk Smoke in the near future (to maintain my sanity) and end up with 1 seat of each once the next version of FCP is released.
 
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