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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Filmscribe - XML - Redcine

Christoffer Glans

Christoffer Glans

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So far my PC-only workflow is as follow:

1. Export DNxHD from Redcine

2. Create ALE through metacheater

3. Import ALE into Avid and then batch import all exported QT's

4. Import sound

5. Autosync sound and image with source timecode

6. EDIT

7. Output through filmscribe...


And there it stops... how do I get an XML list that can be used in RedCine to export DPX files? Whenever I choose (according to Avids workflow guide) Global settings XML template and Scan List for my sequence it says that XML doesn't support Scan List.

Need überfast answers...
 
That is because you have the wrong version of Filmscribe :)

Update to 24.0.5 and it's going to work.

But you won't get it into Redcine. That's because you didn't do the workflow according to avid.com/red/
You need to start with an XSLT ALE not Metacheater ALE.

Thank God there's an application coming for PC called cineXML :)
It will solve your problems - but you need Vista.

Or you could download the Mac beta version today and borrow a Mac for the render in Redcine. The fully functional beta expires tomorrow though.

EDIT: Another thing... Autosynced clips are not supported by Avid for Red XML export yet. That means you get the metadata for the synced clips - not the original Red files. You may need to match frame those into place.
 
Syncing by hand is too timeconsuming. Then I could only hope that crimson is able to read Avid EDL lists.
 
The FilmScribe that ships with v3.0.6 that comes out in the next couple weeks supports subclips created in editing. AutoSync can be done automatically if there is a common timecode between the picture and sound.

Michael
 
Michael appears to be understating things a little- probably because they're a public company and don't want to break any rules about promising and and that stuff- BUT- yesterday at a 'RED Workflow' seminar in the heart of old Hollywood (which is kind of new Hollywood if you don't look too far off the boulevard...) They showed several valid workflows for Avid that work now- most of which have already been discussed. Including CineXML - pretty cool for 'modern' editing with lots of effects and speed ramps, and my current fav, Monkey Extract, which works with CMX (and modified CMX) EDLs.

But they also showed a 'technology demo' (legal-speak for 'stuff we're working on but can't officially announce cause we don't know when it will be ready') of the RED SDK working directly in Avid DS- well, it didn't actually work, but almost- so you'd take an AFE from Avid and drop it into DS- and DS would have access directly to the .r3d through the SDK interface. Even better for Avid PC users, they showed a version of Metafuze with the SDK embedded- meaning skip the render-then-import-double-the-media thing- Metafuze renders (like Red Rushes does for QT) directly into MXF, which can be opened right in Avid, rather than converting into QT, which then has to be imported into Avid as a second pass. Also, if I understood correctly, Metafuze can be spread across as many CPUs as you can throw at it, with a little bit of XML code.

Also, 'fast import' is reported to actually be... well... fast soon.
 
Well, we all know that things are coming, but for me I'm starting the editing process late next week, so what's to come has little interest to me as what to do now.

Michael, is it possible for me to start editing with autosync now and whenever I upgrade to 3.0.6 it will work to export the xml?

Online is done with crimson and from what I know it can't read an Avid EDL list.
That's why I need the XML list and it needs to work with autosynced sound, because we do not use the camera audio function.

Also, is it possible to export an XML list when the import was made by an ALE from metacheater? The workflow on the Avid site is one step too much compared to metacheating, which is fast as hell (compared to other PC only workflows).
 
Glazarus said:
Well, we all know that things are coming, but for me I'm starting the editing process late next week, so what's to come has little interest to me as what to do now.

Michael, is it possible for me to start editing with autosync now and whenever I upgrade to 3.0.6 it will work to export the xml?

Online is done with crimson and from what I know it can't read an Avid EDL list.
That's why I need the XML list and it needs to work with autosynced sound, because we do not use the camera audio function.

Also, is it possible to export an XML list when the import was made by an ALE from metacheater? The workflow on the Avid site is one step too much compared to metacheating, which is fast as hell (compared to other PC only workflows).
Click to expand...

XML is just a language. Crimson uses Final Cut Pro XML which is completely different from the XML you get from Avid FilmScribe.

Your best bet is to either:
  • Use an EDL for Monkey Extract to generate the online files.
  • Export an Avid XML for cineXML to open the sequence footage in Redcine.
Both options have support for Metacheater.
 
Online is done in Crimson/redcine and offline is PC only workflow with redcine and Avid.

What steps do I take? (Please, no steps for other workflows at this time)
 
The important choice you are making is REDCINE. How you get there is what you need to focus on. Currently the best way to get their is via cineXML.

Michael
 
But then there's the issue of autosync not working right?

Next week I'm starting the offline editing as well as storing the material on location.
My plan is to do this:

* Transcoding r3d to DV offline files each day with redcine
* Make an ALE with metacheater each day
* Batch import DV files into Avid
* Import separate audio files
* Autosync them based on timecode
* EDIT


So far so good and that is what I'm going to do until we are going to do the online.
Now, based on this workflow, what works? I mean WORKS, not in theory.
Crimson needs an XML, but filmscribe doesn't work with metacheater.
Does crimson work with EDL lists?

I could also do the Avid website workflow:

* Redcine transcoding to DV files
* Save an XML in redcine for each day
* Convert the XML to an ALE with Xtrans
* Batch import the DV files based on the ALE
* Import separate audio files and autosync
* EDIT
* wait for version 3.0.6 to come out and do an XML export in filmscribe
* Either use Xtrans and convert to readable redcine XML or do it in Crimson.


At the moment though I'm getting an error in filmscribe that it's unable to find "key number" when doing the XML. And I can't merge the redcine template and the exported XML in Xtrans.
It's also not working with autosync?


But most important, can I do the first workflow version for the moment and wait for the right tools to do the online? I cannot start editing on this huge project and then realize that I used a workflow that isn't supported after the offline is done.
 
Glazarus said:
But most important, can I do the first workflow version for the moment and wait for the right tools to do the online? I cannot start editing on this huge project and then realize that I used a workflow that isn't supported after the offline is done.
Click to expand...

Start editing with Metacheater ALEs.

Then online with another tool than Crimson. Crimson is for now adapted for FCP workflows. Either use Monkey Extract or cineXML for the online.

What finishing system are you going to use for the online?
 
It says that cineXML support effects and dissolves... how can RedCine read dissolves when creating the 2K dpx images used for grading? Rendering in Avids offline DV timeline where I'm editing the entire movie sound a bit odd.

And does cineXML work on PC? All I see is Mac...
 
Glazarus said:
It says that cineXML support effects and dissolves... how can RedCine read dissolves when creating the 2K dpx images used for grading?
Click to expand...

You create the dissolves for the DPX sequence in the online - not in Redcine. What cineXML does is take account for what footage you use in your timeline and let Redcine render just those parts.
It also let's you go from offline to online in a snap since you just reconnect to the high resolution file if you use Avid Media Composer or Avid Symphony for HD online.

Glazarus said:
Rendering in Avids offline DV timeline where I'm editing the entire movie sound a bit odd.
Click to expand...

I don't quite understand your statement here.

Glazarus said:
And does cineXML work on PC? All I see is Mac...
Click to expand...

cineXML works fine on PC. It just hasn't been released yet...
It's due in just a couple of days. I will post here when it's available.
 
Glazarus: I looked at your other posts and they suggest that you live in Sweden.
If this is the case you are welcome to contact me off list and I will try to help you to get the project started.
 
I live in Sweden, though I'll continue in english due to the nature of the site.

As long as I can work with dissolves in the offline and the online has the information about it and the ability to duplicate that dissolve; everythings is fine.
 
You can work with all the effects you want in the offline as rebus says since that is more of an online conform issue, not a select/pull process. The SCAN XML from FilmScribe goes through the sequence removing the effects and listing only the sources needed to for the VFX as well as the non VFX elements of the timeline.

You may be running into the subclip limitation which has been fixed and is part of the 3.0.6 release due out in the next two weeks.

Michael
 
For now, all I need to know is if I can work like this during the offline:

Redcine
R3D - DV PAL 25p Offline media (after each day of shooting)

Metacheater
DV PAL through Metacheater to create an ALE

Avid Media Composer
* Import ALE
* Batch import Offline media
* Import audio
* Autosync Audio and Offline footage so timecode is correct

EDIT

This is what I'm going to do in the next month. Online is done after x-mas, probably as late as start of februari. I just need to know that this workflow is safe and that everything is going to be ok later on. I don't want to start edit and realize when trying to do the online that my workflow wasn't supported.

There's alot of "experimenting" among users here but I need something rock solid, or at least something that looks and feels rock solid.
 
Workflow looks fine - are you shooting RED at 24fps or 25? If 24, make sure to do the 24->25 conversion in MetaCheater.

Michael
 
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