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Filming on Ice with RED

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lancisti

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Hi guys, Im a RED owner, number 4066, Im just a newby around, so I have many many questions;

Im filming on a mountain in the next weeks, I have experience with this stuff previously, but its my first time filming with a RED in that conditions: so.

1- About the Photography, since I told u I filmed previously in a mountain, at high altitude and snow around so I know that polarized filters are a must,(about the altitude,light latitude is so extreme), and I.R. filters about RED specific conditions. BUT: Do I need any other filters? Any specific aperture lenses?

And about the meauserements in RED, Im filming at regular speed, but I also have a couple of shot at high speed...so, any advice about h.s. at that conditions?

2-About the conditions of use; The weather is supposed to be calm and dry, but we´ll be at 3000 mtrs high and -10 degrees...so how is it going on RED like that? and the batteries? is it better to shoot on CF cards?

-Another different question; does anyone knows if the new Lexar 16GB UDMA 300x CompactFlash Card works on RED?

Thanks u guys for ur patience with this newby.:bleh:

If we radicate our friendship in distance or time, we´ll be nothing when well meet again. Juan Eduardo Gaviota
 
lancisti said:
1- About the Photography, since I told u I filmed previously in a mountain, at high altitude and snow around so I know that polarized filters are a must,(about the altitude,light latitude is so extreme), and I.R. filters about RED specific conditions. BUT: Do I need any other filters? Any specific aperture lenses?
Click to expand...

Yes, polarizers are a must. I would also have an IR cut or hot mirror filter in the kit, perhaps some IR+ND filters. You will of course need some standard ND filters. The IR+ND and hot-mirror become very difficult to use in combination with a polarizer, so be aware of that, as both need to be out in front of the lens and all other filters for proper operation. I would chance some IR contamination that can usually be corrected by CC in post, to make sure I had proper polarization and no worries of reflections between filters before I try stacking pola + IR filter.

Snow actually has a dampening effect on IR, however there can be an IR-reflective effect from reflective ice, water, polished snow or other overly shiny surfaces. But I think you will find the IR filtering to not be such an issue in colder environments and with lots of snow or other bright and reflective surfaces, your primary concern should be polarizer and ND.

And about the meauserements in RED, Im filming at regular speed, but I also have a couple of shot at high speed...so, any advice about h.s. at that conditions?
Click to expand...

At higher frame rates, your exposure time is typically shortened. You will have to reduce the amount of ND or increase exposure to compensate. In bright outdoor environments, it's typically easier to get the light you need for higher frame rates.

2-About the conditions of use; The weather is supposed to be calm and dry, but we´ll be at 3000 mtrs high and -10 degrees...so how is it going on RED like that? and the batteries? is it better to shoot on CF cards?
Click to expand...

I'm going to assume you mean -10C, which translates to 14F. While it is cold, the RED should handle just fine. I've had mine in MUCH colder than that with no issues. Keep your batteries warm, they can freeze. I'm not sure what the exact freezing point of most Li-Ion cells is, but I do know that 0F or about -16C will do it. Try to minimize the down-time between power-ons for the camera as it is presumably better to try and keep it at a consistent temperature rather than lots of heating and cooling. At very cold temperatures, lenses will behave differently and focus marks can be off. This can be in some part due to the effects of cold on the lens mount, but also with the lenses themselves. Watch for condensation. Use covers, bags, etc.. to protect open connectors and the camera from blowing snow, debris, weather. Same thing with the front element for your lenses. If you don't have a pola in front of the lens, then have a clear UV or flat front there to protect against wind-blown debris.

At 3000m in altitude or close to 10000ft, you should plan on shooting to CF cards. Especially at the colder temps. The RED drives are rated to 10000ft and I have honestly had mine working fine higher than that, but I don't know if there are any long-term effects. It's also one of those things where any step you can take to eliminate a hard drive or moving mechanical parts from your workflow equation, you will be better off. Hard drives do not like the cold. Keep the drives warm, like your batteries, don't ever power up a frozen drive. CF will be the best option here. Hopefully we will see the RED SSD drive soon too.

-Another different question; does anyone knows if the new Lexar 16GB UDMA 300x CompactFlash Card works on RED?
Click to expand...

No, they don't work.
 
Pola and IR should be enough, unless you want shallow DoF in which case take NDs with IR cut and/or grad NDs for horizon work. Lenses to taste!

High speed shots should be fine, just need less ND.

Red is fine down to -20 C or so if I remember right, but try to keep it warm as well as batteries as they lose a lot of charge if kept cold. If you can, start the camera with lens on and RedDrive before you go outside, to let it warm up and get everything flowing lubrication wise in the lenses etc so it's easier to keep that way. Remember condensation problems.

No idea on Lexar 16GB cards sorry!

HTH

Paul

EDIT: Beat me to it Jeff!! :D
 
Guys I love u both, thanks u very much about the advices...specially u Jeff, u rule!
Im shooting on nikon F 2.8 lenses, and im taking some ND filters also, I supposed that i could be hard to mix ir, nd and pola, but, that would make it more exciting!!! as soon as i film that, ill share that!
Just one question Jeff, why doesnt that CF card works?

Lancisti
 
Jeff, I am little concerned about the CF. I have shot couple of months ago at 4,640 m (15,220 ft) in 0˚C and I was recommended to use the CF as well instead of the drive. We had to go up very early to get a timelapse of a sunrise. We have only one shot at this and the CF module failed - we lost the sunrise. The same exact module worked fine until then - so this was clearly related to the altitude and temperature. Fortunately we had the drive with us and it saved the rest of the day. We had no problems with the drive what so ever. I am not saying that Your advice is incorrect - not at all - You have provided some of the most comprehensive info all along. I just highly recommend Lancisti to do a quick test on the location before the actual shooting to determine that there is no issue with the CF module...

Here is the original thread:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18221

Go to post #28 and #29 to see what happened...

Just my two pesos...

:) Peter
 
OH-MY-GOD!
I saw the pictures....did it really happened to u???? well well, it seems that well have to carry a hard drive with us...anyway...Ill try to go beyond on cards and try any tactics I used with other cams...
Heat looks to be the solution, and to simulate a warmer enviroment around the cam, uhmnnnn I think that im making a electric wire heater coat or somthing, based on an external 12 V power source and softshield tex. Yuhuuu, some action around finally, haw haw haw....

Just my two euros...

Thanks u both guys,Jeff & Peter.
 
Yeah, Peter, I remember that thread. I can't say what happened there. Personally, I would never trust or even want to fire up a hard drive at temps below freezing. Bad idea.

I've shot a few hours worth of footage t -9F and below (down to -15F) and no problems with CF cards. ...Just my experience.
 
the thread was never closed or did you get a solution Peter ?
A pity what happened, especially regarding the speciality of that incident. It is a very special defect that shouldn't be typical of cold CFs. Doesn't make sense for that kind of technology.
 
Consider the RED RAM as you don't need to worry about changing cards!

Dave
 
Ah yah!? ??? I even didnt noticed yet, (said with ironic tone) ehemmm...Do u know if it would be avaliable soon...or do I have to apply the timings common rule at RED...he he he...(irony again)
 
I don't know... We were told October, then november... december... It's January here in less than 48 hours. I don't know what to think yet. And while I'm anxiously awaiting the RED RAM SSD drives, I'm going to have a tough time paying the quoted price and I doubt I would buy more than one right now. I may even pass at this point and just rent a couple when needed. SSD tech is evolving very rapidly right now and it seems we are getting new product announcements with better specs and more capacity every week.

I know that a lot of different things factor in to make an SSD usable for RED. But SSD makers are targeting HDD makers in 2009 and will be going for the throat. This is one industry segment that is very hot right now and it's only going to get hotter.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I don't know... We were told October, then november... december... It's January here in less than 48 hours. I don't know what to think yet. And while I'm anxiously awaiting the RED RAM SSD drives, I'm going to have a tough time paying the quoted price and I doubt I would buy more than one right now. I may even pass at this point and just rent a couple when needed. SSD tech is evolving very rapidly right now and it seems we are getting new product announcements with better specs and more capacity every week.

I know that a lot of different things factor in to make an SSD usable for RED. But SSD makers are targeting HDD makers in 2009 and will be going for the throat. This is one industry segment that is very hot right now and it's only going to get hotter.
Click to expand...

You have no idea Jeff... :biggrin:
If You could only see the babies I get to play with... :devil:
 
augenmensch aka therock said:
the thread was never closed or did you get a solution Peter ?
A pity what happened, especially regarding the speciality of that incident. It is a very special defect that shouldn't be typical of cold CFs. Doesn't make sense for that kind of technology.
Click to expand...

It wasn't the CF, but rather the CF module. Something with the altitude and/or the temperature made it go haywire as it worked for many months flawlessly until this trip. RED of course offered an instant replacement unit for the module... Unfortunately I am not sure when I get a chance again to go up there. But I intend to return - the view from there is rather spectacular, hopefully we can catch similar sunrise...

:) Peter
 
Humn, so the only thing to do concerning on it is to pray and wait. I think that right now its senseless spending any effort on thinking what is coming or not, I mean its nice to figure out what we ar gonna have in the future, but for the regular user doesnt make any sense, because the fight is out there and right now u just have the weapons that RED give us...so...If we consider that 2009 is gonna be quite particular in economical terms, it will affect everything, even I+D at RED...Its just my oppinion...but it may take a little longer to see those wonders out there.
 
lancisti.

PM sent!

Dave
 
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