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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Film Schools

Well, I'll give you one that didn't, that way we can narrow down if any have yet.

I know the Los Angeles Film School on Sunset, where I attended briefly, had a "wait and see" attitude about the RED One. In other words, they planned to place orders well after they are being used in the industry, and to my knowledge still have not done so. My production company will have 4 before they even have one, and that makes me happy. ;)
 
What the hell is wrong with them? Any school not jumping on the RED wagon will be left in the dust.
 
Schools don't really need to buy RED cameras, I'm sure some will eventually, but there is no quick demand for it. In school, we shot with PD-150s, 16mm, and 35mm for the graduate students. It is never about the 'camera' in film school. It's about telling good stories. I'm sure my alma mater will buy some REDS relatively soon since they are phasing out film and moving towards digital acquisition, but its not a priority with most of the professors as far as I'm aware.
 
In many cases giving good cameras to students is foolish; they break them. The other problem is that when it's time for senior projects then there is never enough gear to go around and one or two students hog the equipment while others wait and eventually suffer. I'm sure some schools will eventually buy a few REDs so advanced students can get their hands on them, but for most projects a DVX is more than enough to learn the craft.
 
But, high-end Arri's and others like them are used at least by your fourth year if not before. Why not a RED. There's more to break in an Arri which has many moving parts (kinda). I don't see the problem. There is no reason why you shouldn't be on the cutting edge, even if you are a student. They don't want painting students using shitty paintbrushes in art school. They want the best paintbrushes! So get the best cameras!
 
I do agree with you though rgdfilmsRED, storytelling in film school is key.
 
jt24fps said:
But, high-end Arri's and others like them are used at least by your fourth year if not before. Why not a RED. There's more to break in an Arri which has many moving parts (kinda). I don't see the problem. There is no reason why you shouldn't be on the cutting edge, even if you are a student. They don't want painting students using shitty paintbrushes in art school. They want the best paintbrushes! So get the best cameras!
Click to expand...

If you're talking about trade schools - schools which primarily train students to be crew members - I can see your point. If you're talking about film schools, well, a film school is not a trade school. What's taught in film school is respect for and history of the arts, respect for the story, and respect for and knowledge of the craft. Not to mention that many film schools use, well, film. But what happens to be in the camera is far less important than what's being done with it.

As far as Arris, well, yes, they do have moving parts. But most film schools also have a repair shop in the camera department and a good supply of spare parts for the cameras - and people who know how to maintain them. Honestly, who at this point in time would be able to repair a Red?
 
Well said. But if you give me a RED and lock me in a room for a couple of months I bet I could learn how to fix it. JK :). I very much agree with you on your trade school vs. film school points.
 
jt24fps said:
Anybody know of any film schools that placed orders on a RED ONE?
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Yes, I know and I've been actually working and commited enough for such purpose. But I'm not allowed to unveil any details on subject. Sorry. Just for the record. There is and with upcoming success.

Cheers ;-)
 
I think Red would be the perfect film school camera. More so than DVX100s or anything. Red is very pure, it's just digital 35. Set your shutter speed and then you're just dialing in lenses and using light meters. All that and you don't have the expense of film processing (a big barrier, I have poor film student friends choking under the expense of a 16mm senior project).
 
Exactly. Speaking as proud pioneer, that's what I thought since day one.
 
Good Match

Good Match

RED should be well suited for schools. It's an all manual camera. You'll learn a lot more from it than an all auto DVX or PD150. RED is a cinema camera. The best benefit is that a RED will not cost you $200 in film and lab work to just see your under-exposed, out-of-focus class projects.
 
I like the schools that continue to shoot and edit with film, on flatbeds. A lot of schools are pushing towards digital, which is nice and pretty but there's something lost in the process. I took a still photography class and for the first month, we were using pinhole cameras made out of a tube of cardboard. 2-15 minute exposures. Everytime we took a shot, we had to walk back to the lab to develop and reshoot. I learned more doing that than any dSLR could have taught me. We all know quality trumps with the red but having to use the most basic original elements of making a film teaches you to respect the masters. It's easy to preview and delete, but with film, you have to get it right the first time. And if you don't its fun to F up and learn from that.
 
Regardless of the medium used it is never really cost effective, except for places like Full Sail, to have budgets to fill the department. Another major factor I hear from school faculty is that "students break them, I would never even bother" Truth is once Red's popularity kicks up next year (I don't think it will dramatically hit this year), school's will realize this camera is a great marketing tool.

Either way, snooze you lose
 
I'm at New York University (NYU) in the undergraduate film and television program and I heard from a big guy upstairs that the decision has been made to purchase a RED Camera in the future. Just not now, especially since the RED ONE is back ordered.
 
Analogy

Analogy

rgdfilmsRED said:
I like the schools that continue to shoot and edit with film, on flatbeds. A lot of schools are pushing towards digital, which is nice and pretty but there's something lost in the process. I took a still photography class and for the first month, we were using pinhole cameras made out of a tube of cardboard.
Click to expand...

Asking a student to shoot and edit film to appreciate the masters now after RED is like telling the kid he can't enjoy a Playstation3 until he has mastered Pong and completed all levels of Pacman. Checking the gate?

I was forced to take FORTRAN as a computer language as well in college to get my degree. C was a non-credited option in another department. I never have used FORTRAN again, but I sure could have C.
 
I'm pretty sure USC is testing 'em. But they have a very "closed system" approach to technology so I'm sure they'll screw up the workflow somehow.

When I was there, they had a ludicrous setup for editing where they essentially wanted to make it as hard as possible for you to connect a firewire drive to the editing computer. Just doing a couple of things in After Effects was a major battle. They waste money like nobody's business. So, my prediction is they'll have a bunch of Red Ones but only allow you to digitize footage by plugging the HD-SDI output into a DV downconverter ;)

I totally agree with the above points though that the camera you use is not particularly important. On the other hand, Red helps people understand things like f-stop, lens choices, etc a lot better than a PD150 does. When people went from PD150s in one semester to 16mm in the next, there were a lot of serious screwups made by students that could have been avoided if basic camera concepts had been understood.

Of course, you could also give students HV20s + 35mm adapters but that would probably scare the heck out of the faculty. I mean, jibs made them nervous...

In South Africa (where the building of homemade jibs and dollies by crazy students is definitely encouraged rather than discouraged), I expect a couple of more technically-oriented places to get them at some point in time. And some of the more forward-looking universities might get one to play with. Rest assured that faculty there is definitely aware of the Red and probably can't wait to play with one themselves. They are incredibly expensive though and again everyone would probably be better served by a stack of 35mm adapter-ed HV20s. Anyway, I'm sure you'll see a whack of Red-shot stuff from all over the world shot on cameras rented by eager students who take the initiative themselves. Overkill, of course, but if you were a film student, how could you resist renting one for a day?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
What a @#$ joke!

What a @#$ joke!

rgdfilmsRED said:
I like the schools that continue to shoot and edit with film, on flatbeds. A lot of schools are pushing towards digital, which is nice and pretty but there's something lost in the process. I took a still photography class and for the first month, we were using pinhole cameras made out of a tube of cardboard. 2-15 minute exposures. Everytime we took a shot, we had to walk back to the lab to develop and reshoot. I learned more doing that than any dSLR could have taught me. We all know quality trumps with the red but having to use the most basic original elements of making a film teaches you to respect the masters. It's easy to preview and delete, but with film, you have to get it right the first time. And if you don't its fun to F up and learn from that.
Click to expand...

I was one of the last film students who shot 8mm at LMU, 16 mm in B/W at USC, 16mm and 35mm at Art Center in Color... and I came from shooting VHS and 8mm video with 4, 45+ minute slash edited vhs and 8mm programs before dealing with horrible moviolas at USC summer production workshops for 3 summers... and later flat beds at LMU and later Art Center.

Spending $1.00 a foot or roughly $1.00 a second on 35mm film - 30 cent stock, 30 cent processing, 30 cent print... back in1995... plus $80 an hour for 20 track sound mixing... $400 an hour mixing in Hollywood, Digital rocks!

Film Students are way better off with HDV and soon RED. Film is Dead in the next 5 years - both as an acquisition platform and delivery... all will be digital and it will save everyone lots of money.

I had teachers from USC and Art Center say film will never die at least for 50 years and post production convergence which was obvious to me, would never happen with the same person doing picture, sound, graphics, and FX... I guess I was ahead of my time... and they like all the editors who could not adapt to AVID since they loved the touch of film became unemployed very quickly.

I also see the film shooters who love $1 a foot in 35mm for 24 frames or roughly $.30 cents a foot in for 3 seconds in 16mm will soon be out of a job when RED and similar cameras take over with better and cheeper results like the digital still cameras... the difference is Nikon and Canon changed jobs form film to digital... can Arri, Panavision, Fuji and Kodak change? Will Sony, Canon, Nikon do the job? Or is it RED, to lead the way, like Apple into the new digital landscape?!
 
Hi,

In my opinion, it's how you teach the students no matter what camera there is available.
Instead of teaching students (especially, DoP ones) how to record a series of images, I think it is a lot more
beneficial if they learn how those images are made through a digital camera.
Resolution, pixel shifting, ADC, color sampling (color space), quantization, and recording medium. These are
some of the things that I had to learn by myself while attending a film graduate school.

Having more hi-end cameras is very helpful for the students get their hands-on, but without learning these advanced concepts, one
would never be able to take advantage of shooting digital.

On the other hand, when all those necessary knowledge is taught, having hi-end cameras will enable them
to obtain the best image quality possible. Of course, I am talking only about the camera side.

Sorry for going off topic. I'm writing my thesis paper on these topics, now. :)
 
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