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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

FIlm professionals petition seeks to bring back old Final Cut Pro

Andrae Palmer said:
The iPhone, iPad and iPod are all desirable innovations.
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True, but look at what happened there. They took, by all accounts, a professional product (Blackberry) and made it for consumers - you get your daily schedule, some apps, e-mail, and the internet. Oh - and it's a phone.

But, all around the world, RIM still owns the hardcore business cell phone market with their super fast email and ear shattering ring tones.

And then, look at what happened. Apple took "iPhone" and made it better with the next release. And then better. And then better still. Everything is still there - they didn't get rid of visual voicemail, they didn't remove the camera, they didn't make you have to literally jump up and down to make it work. They just improved and refined it. Consumers like that. Millions of people have cast Billions of ballots in support of that model.

Andrae Palmer said:
Why is it that FCPX is not so desirable to Apple fans such as myself?
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Because Apple did something extremely unexpected. Apple released FCP in what - 1999? And since then, FCP has been on a similar slow march towards some as of yet unachieved perfection. Adding support for different filetypes, adding support for different resolutions, increasing general capability.

So people expected the same thing - except this time, due to a lack of progress recently, they expected a leap instead of a baby step. And Apple catered to that, saying that the next release was going to be great, and that it would have made all the wait worth the while.

And now here it is, but it isn't what people were expecting at all. Which, psychologically, is a very bad thing. And I think that's just it. FCPX isn't inherently bad*. It's just not what people were expecting.

--
*Granted, there are some oversights that could cause people with established workflows to have migraines that physically manifest themselves.

--

Edit: The other thing that strikes me as odd is the extremism displayed here (though I suppose its pretty much everywhere else). I keep hearing the proverbial gnashing of teeth as people unhappy with the present state of a new iteration of software seem to cast it, or any of its future versions off as though they were marked with some Dark Sign. "Final Cut? That which hath no XML/EDL support? No! Never Again! We shall burn it, and salt the drive it was installed on."

I think it's one thing to say "Oooh...yeah. That won't work. Let's try Premiere." and another to throw the baby out with the bathwater and condemn Final Cut, the development team, and Apple without giving this new creation a chance to breathe.

If anything, as I said above, censure Apple for not being forthcoming about the fact that they were planning on making some pretty big theoretical decisions about editing in Final Cut that would affect the practical use of their upcoming software in pretty serious ways for some people.
 
Some things aren't revolutionary or "the future" just because it comes from Apple, just get over it.
 
I think making something simpler can be really nice.
But making it simpler by removing features and functionality is something totally different.
 
Michael Olsen said:
And now here it is, but it isn't what people were expecting at all. Which, psychologically, is a very bad thing. And I think that's just it. FCPX isn't inherently bad*. It's just not what people were expecting.
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It isn't a birthday present.

It is marketed and sold as a viable tool for professional video production. Apple PR doesn't dictate workflow needs and editor's requirements. For comparisons sake, it might help telling your long year clients "It isn't inherently bad, it is just not what you expected" and checking out the reaction.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
It isn't a birthday present.

It is marketed and sold as a viable tool for professional video production. Apple PR doesn't dictate workflow needs and editor's requirements. For comparisons sake, it might help telling your long year clients "It isn't inherently bad, it is just not what you expected" and checking out the reaction.
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I understand that. My point is - for now - it won't work in all circumstances, but it's not a death knell either. Not every editor with every workflow can just upgrade and be on their merry way. It doesn't work for me right now. I've switched over to Premiere 5.5.

I don't think thats any reason to write off Final Cut altogether - "Apple has just sold out." "Apple is no longer a professional company." Such comments, I think, will be quickly realized as extremely short sighted.

But they can stay with FCP 7 until
 
Compared to the features in Premiere Pro... I didn't get any enlightenment from this presentation... where is the revolution? I like having native R3D support in Premiere Pro / Adobe Media Encoder, RED Rocket card support in Adobe Media Encoder / Premiere Pro, Epic camera support in Adobe Media Encoder / Premiere Pro, new color science support in Premiere Pro / Adobe Media encoder... realtime playback via GPU rendering and multicore optimization. What is revolutionary about FCPX? Premiere Pro had this stuff way before FCPX. FCPX is just a bunch of hype... too bad other companies are not as good as marketing their stuff as Apple.

I don't see anything revolutionary about transcoding footage for hours or days just to get it into an editing program. Premiere Pro CS4.1 had native REDCODE import since May 29, 2009... that was revolutionary. 64 bit and Mercury Playback engine was introduced in Premiere Pro CS5 April 30, 2010.... that was very revolutionary. RED Rocket support was added in September 1st of 2010 in Premiere Pro CS5.0.2.

It's all good to talk about what we'll have in a future version of FCPX... but this is what we have right now in Premiere Pro and we've had it for a couple years now. Who knows what Adobe will release by next year. Will FCPX be constantly playing catch up?
 
In the past it has always been Vegas Pro at the forefront of innovation. Much of the new revolutionary features in FCP X - "edit while playback", "magnetic timelines", "preview project w/o opening" etc. - 2005/2006. Track based editing - 2004 or even before, probably. HD - 2002. Automatic conforming of a wide range of formats on a single timeline / playback without rendering - 2000. (FCP X still needs rendering!) 32-bit FP - 2007. 64-bit in 2007. 4K and Native RED editing in 2009. I used to edit 4K on-set assemblies on a $500 Core 2 Duo laptop in 2009! Native 3D editing, MVC support in 2010. The audio features of Vegas Pro 10 are still leagues ahead of any NLE. Not surprising since it started as a DAW.

Adobe has since surpassed Vegas Pro in terms of innovation - particularly with CUDA, Rocket and native Epic support.

Everyone talks about FCP X being revolutionary, but no one has really made a list of said revolutionary features and facts. Whatever justifications/discussions I have seen have been part of Vegas Pro for years.
 
Well the post was not meant to sway anyone into anything. It was in reference too FCPX.
Im a firm believer that people have choices.
I choose to enjoy learning FCPX but I also have the choice of using any tool to get the job done.
Currently its RED > Avid > Resolve plus a dash of After Effects and Maya.
 
Great Link Eric.

That guy has seen more footage than a lot of people and he speaks from a truthful and honest place. He looks at it honestly and the fact is there are a lot of things that experienced professionals will appreciate in FCP 10.

Just look at the part where he is auditioning takes. How can a drama editor not love that?!

This software will take off. This software will set the tone.

Others will follow.

David
 
David Battistella said:
This software will take off. This software will set the tone...
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Its great that we have options like this available to all and not just to the select few. I instruct FCP, After Effects and Maya at a basic level at local college and wished all apps geared towards ease of use so that they can spend more time on telling/crafting the story.
Teaching AE and Maya is a challenge since its so deep at times the students get too entrenched in the tech as oppose to being creative.
 
David Battistella said:
Others will follow.

David
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FCPX followed Premiere Pro to 64 bit, GPU rendering and multicore optimization. It still does not have native support of many formats.
 
David Battistella said:
Just look at the part where he is auditioning takes. How can a drama editor not love that?!
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Yes, many drama editors do. That's why it's been in Avid Media Composer since they instituted script based editing back in the mid 90's. And prior to that it was the entire basis for the Ediflex from the mid to late 80s. In fact, Avid bought that technology from Ediflex when they folded in the early 90s.
 
M Most said:
Yes, many drama editors do. That's why it's been in Avid Media Composer since they instituted script based editing back in the mid 90's. And prior to that it was the entire basis for the Ediflex from the mid to late 80s. In fact, Avid bought that technology from Ediflex when they folded in the early 90s.
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Yes but now Apple has added it to their editor....so we will consider it brand new, revolutionary and a million times better....:rolleyes5: ....
(sarcasm)
 
Maz Mawlawi said:
Yes but now Apple has added it to their editor....so we will consider it brand new, revolutionary and a million times better....:rolleyes5: ....
(sarcasm)
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Better than what? Better than FCP 7. That is what the whole presentation is about, the idea that the program isn't quite as shitty as the alarmists claim it is.
 
Lol, just switch to Adobe. If you have to brow-beat a company into continuing a product line, their heart is not really in it.
 
I have to wonder why anyone, at this stage in the game, would want FCP7 to come back??? Especially those of us here doing R3D workflow? OMG, R3D workflow with Final Cut is like having teeth pulled compared to the other solutions that are out there now. FCP7 was a tired old mule a year ago, nearly stone-dead in terms of R3D workflow. And yet people continue to force themselves to use it. Editors are a funny breed for sure...

FCP7 needs to just be allowed to die in peace, with what dignity it still has left. FCPX should be buried next to it.
 
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