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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

FIlm professionals petition seeks to bring back old Final Cut Pro

Some of the requests actually sound somewhat childish. Just get CS 5.5. It's pretty darn cheap right now, and you can transfer FCP projects into it if you need to.
 
I signed it a few weeks back... But I support the sentiment of many others... just move on to Premiere Pro CS5.5.
 
jaadgy akanni said:
I totally oppose it. Never look back.
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Yes, say that to the companies who invested in those thousands if not millions of dollars. Again, some can think like you do, others can't. Most people seem to not understand the ramifications this has to the industry, maybe because they haven't been involved in that scale of it yet. I gladly sign and use something else, Apple isn't a reliable source of professional gear, they have proven that now.
 
I don't agree with the requests, Perhaps Final Cut Pro 7 should be offered along side Final Cut pro for those who Final Cut pro X does not meet the needs of just yet but the rest is just childish.
I find it amusing that after years of complaining about Final Cut pro not being able to keep up they suddenly want the crappy version back that they complained about so much, I don't mind that it looks a little bit like imovie, as long as it still functions like final cut pro the app was due for a re-write anyway, I just wish they had kept the studio approach and axe apps like DVD studio pro which could have been updated with Blu-ray authoring for those who still look to that for distribution.
 
The petition shoots itself in the foot with the third request:

3. Final Cut Pro X is to be considered part of the iMovie family or labeled a "prosumer" product.

Seriously, that one is just dumb. If someone wants FCP7 back, that's a reasonable request. But to tell Apple how to label a new, up-and-coming product, without having the first clue about Apple's future plans for it is just silly, and, besides, completely off-topic.

Too bad. I wonder how many people fail to sign it for this reason.
 
Craig W. Bickerstaff said:
I find it amusing that after years of complaining about Final Cut pro not being able to keep up they suddenly want the crappy version back that they complained about so much
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I thought people wanted to keep FCP7 around because of the features that are missing from FCPX, not because FCP7 is better. Personally, I like the new UI in FCPX.
 
Robert Frank said:
I thought people wanted to keep FCP7 around because of the features that are missing from FCPX, not because FCP7 is better. Personally, I like the new UI in FCPX.
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Based on the requests of that petition I would have guessed that they were expecting that one day they would just see FCP 8 and it would be 64 bit and I guess support any resolution or codec they threw at it natively without the need for a quicktime wrapper and have rendering magically not be needed.
I had my own expectations for FCPX but I figured once the app came out that because it was a re write features would return with time but most people seem to have gotten the idea that Apple have decided to ignore pros in favor of youtube producers.
 
Craig W. Bickerstaff said:
I find it amusing that after years of complaining about Final Cut pro not being able to keep up they suddenly want the crappy version back that they complained about so much, I don't mind that it looks a little bit like imovie, as long as it still functions like final cut pro the app was due for a re-write anyway...
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One major issue is that Final Cut Pro 7 had at least a dozen problems (drifting gamma, anybody?) that were never really solved. It's unfortunate to me that rather than move along a sensible, evolutionary path, Apple just kinda threw everything out and started with a clean slate. And to me, the existing FCPX is far from being a finished program.

Even in six months, when Apple eventually adds a bunch of the missing features back, it still leaves people without Color, without DVD Studio Pro, with Soundtrack, and a lot of other features. To me, it's kind of like owning a fancy Cadillac that always needed a tune-up and had one tire that always went flat, and the dealer swaps it out for a Toyota Corolla with the steering on the other side. It's not what the customers are used to, what they expect, and the danger is they're gonna get pissed-off and get a Mercedes or a BMW from the competition.

I'm still baffled that they didn't go for an orderly transition and just keep selling FCP 7 until the end of the year, and let people buy FCPX if they really wanted it. Eventually, it might be an OK editing program, but I think heavy-duty users are going to prefer the features of Premiere and Avid.
 
Marc Wielage said:
One major issue is that Final Cut Pro 7 had at least a dozen problems (drifting gamma, anybody?) that were never really solved. It's unfortunate to me that rather than move along a sensible, evolutionary path, Apple just kinda threw everything out and started with a clean slate. And to me, the existing FCPX is far from being a finished program.

Even in six months, when Apple eventually adds a bunch of the missing features back, it still leaves people without Color, without DVD Studio Pro, with Soundtrack, and a lot of other features. To me, it's kind of like owning a fancy Cadillac that always needed a tune-up and had one tire that always went flat, and the dealer swaps it out for a Toyota Corolla with the steering on the other side. It's not what the customers are used to, what they expect, and the danger is they're gonna get pissed-off and get a Mercedes or a BMW from the competition.

I'm still baffled that they didn't go for an orderly transition and just keep selling FCP 7 until the end of the year, and let people buy FCPX if they really wanted it. Eventually, it might be an OK editing program, but I think heavy-duty users are going to prefer the features of Premiere and Avid.
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So you don't think that they hit a wall where it became clear that to continue on an evolutionary path was no longer possible? I agree that they should have kept FCP 7 available on the side and that they should have kept at the rest of the apps but I don't think they started from scratch for the sake of it they just handled the transition poorly.
 
Right now, I don't know where I stand anymore. I started to try out ppro cs5 several months ago, when fcpx came out I decided that was the moment to switch to adobe completely; but it's not an easy switch. For those who are still considering: don't underestimate the equipment you need to make it work as promised, and the learning curve to work between ppro and after effects is steeper than I thought. Working with a few layers of r3d's is quickly grinding a pretty hefty computer to a halt. "Just switch to cs5.5" sounds too easy for me now, and I can understand the desire to have fcp 7 back with some improvements.
 
hans de vries said:
Right now, I don't know where I stand anymore. I started to try out ppro cs5 several months ago, when fcpx came out I decided that was the moment to switch to adobe completely; but it's not an easy switch. For those who are still considering: don't underestimate the equipment you need to make it work as promised, and the learning curve to work between ppro and after effects is steeper than I thought. Working with a few layers of r3d's is quickly grinding a pretty hefty computer to a halt. "Just switch to cs5.5" sounds too easy for me now, and I can understand the desire to have fcp 7 back with some improvements.
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Please join us in the adobe workflow area so we can work on the problems you are seeing.

Thanks
Dave
 
Not to burst anyones bubble, but signing that petition will do nothing because in Apples eyes they did nothing wrong. To them it was just good business. FCP 1-7 accomplished everything that they wanted it to do. It built the Final Cut NLE up as a true professional editor, and made people think highly of it and want it. Then they released a cheaper, and simpler version that everyone could use and didn't need training for which intrigued everyone who was not an industry professional. In the consumers mind they were getting a top of the line and well established NLE which professionals used (even though most don't use it anymore) , and this in turn made Apple millions. Personally from a business stand point I think it was a brilliant move by Apple. Sorry guys but its true, its nothing personal from them, its just good business.
 
Craig W. Bickerstaff said:
So you don't think that they hit a wall where it became clear that to continue on an evolutionary path was no longer possible?
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That was the message Larry Jordan passed on at the LAFCPUG meeting a few weeks ago. I have no doubt that there's underlying code in the old FCP that goes back more than ten years. One major issue is that it was going to be impossible to ever make it 64-bit clean without a rewrite from scratch.

But it would've been nice if there had been an "FCP 7.5" release in the interim just to fix the major really stupid bugs that plagued 7.0 for a long time.

My take is that FCPX is going to be much easier to learn if you come at it as a beginner, from a non-editing background. If you've used either FCP7, Avid, or Premiere before, you're going to have to "unlearn" a lot of stuff before you can wrap your head around the whole paradigm. I'm not sure many pros will have the patience to do this, especially when OMF support and all that other stuff is still vapor-city.
 
Software evolves. That's kinda the point. You can't keep stapling features on the tail end of the App when the underlying foundation is a patchwork quilt. Forward progress sometimes requires you to start from a blank page in order to keep pace with where the Pro world is headed. The architects at Apple (and other places) have to deliver superior User experience, Pro level support, Market share growth over time and generate revenue for their division on a quarterly basis. As I understand it, the tired old FCP platform could not sustain those goals within a Lion OSX architecture. You may be frustrated with it now, but you really have to look ahead six to nine months to see the benefit. Being Pro requires being agile.
 
Marc Wielage said:
My take is that FCPX is going to be much easier to learn if you come at it as a beginner, from a non-editing background. If you've used either FCP7, Avid, or Premiere before, you're going to have to "unlearn" a lot of stuff before you can wrap your head around the whole paradigm. I'm not sure many pros will have the patience to do this, especially when OMF support and all that other stuff is still vapor-city.
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Some current pros will have the patience... but Apple's real target here is probably the next generation of editors. People keep acting as if the iMovie importing features are a personal insult to pros, with no place in a pro app. No. The iMovie import features, the more accessible interface and the lower price are how Apple ensures that today's aspiring editors learn FCP X and take it with them into the industry once they're no longer just aspiring.

It's a strategy that worked well for Apple in the last round of the NLE wars. It's confusing to me that so many people are now acting as if long-term success in the pro video market is determined by a top-down process, when it was bottom-up the last time around, and all the trends that made it so have only become more exaggerated over the last 12 years.

(It's also a long-term strategy, that won't suffer much for Apple taking a few months to get workflow features in place.)
 
I gave up on FCP X, used it for a month. Just pisses me off, it's shouldn't be harder to edit in the timeline. The timeline magnetic/storyline thing is just a glossed over bullshit editing style. Apple said it would be awesome, it's an awesome wast of time.
 
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