FILM CONVERT versus CINEGRAIN?

[Luis Otero]

I own both and love them. I have evolved on the like or dislike of grain. Now I see it as a necessary tool to mask issues, and to create effects only since I love my clean images coming from my Epic.

FilmConvert goes beyond grain; it has so many other areas, being the most interesting of all the film emulation. Knowing that they are planing on developing an OFX for Resolve 10, I am liking it more and more. Now, let's see how this evolves, and how effective it will work.

 

[Sandro Klopfstein]

FilmConvert goes beyond grain; it has so many other areas, being the most interesting of all the film emulation. Knowing that they are planing on developing an OFX for Resolve 10, I am liking it more and more. Now, let's see how this evolves, and how effective it will work.

an OFX version does sound very interesting indeed! I'd buy that.

 

[Nigel Stanford]

Hello again Nigel,

So in theory someone could simply use FilmConvert to apply your 6K grain over a
pure gray (128) image, and then save this grain-only-image and then use it just
as people do with CineGrain.......yes???

Something like that could work, but why would you want to go to all that effort to make the grain look less realistic?

 

[Nigel Stanford]

Hey all - just to let you know, the latest update has some new RED luts in it for RedLogFilm, and RedGamma3.

There are 18 Film Stocks supported for each of the cameras we have modelled.

If you haven't tried FilmConvert on RED footage for a while, go check it out

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I own both and love them. I have evolved on the like or dislike of grain. Now I see it as a necessary tool to mask issues, and to create effects only since I love my clean images coming from my Epic.

Pretty much. I don't think of it as "grain" in a traditional sense. More as "texture". And while many are locked into wanting to emulate grain structures found in certain film stocks, there is nothing that says we have to do it that way. The grain structure can be something else entirely. I'm using grain structures not only to add texture and smooth over or hide certain elements, but also as a form of watermarking.

 

[Daniel Dávila]

Hello Nigel
I'm downloading the new version, but I used Filmconvert on a feature and had multiple issues in the conforming steps, the biggest was that 60% of the exported shots had 1 or 2 seconds offset from the original TC, so it was very difficult to conform in Resolve. And another problem is that there's no way to manually set in/out points, so I had to render the complete shots. I hope these thinks get better.
Any news supporting HDRx?

Thanks

 

[Martin Stevens]

Something like that could work, but why would you want to go to all that effort to make the grain look less realistic?

I was asking for those who wanted the consistent grain over the entire image like with CineGrain,
and I was trying to illustrate that you can also achieve this with FilmConvert as well if you use it to create your own 4K grain plates.

Can film convert create pure even grain over a 6K middle gray plate and look consistent?

Where your original 6K scans done by shooting pure gray?

How many frames before the grain repeats?

 

[BRANDON JAMESON]

I was asking for those who wanted the consistent grain over the entire image like with CineGrain,
and I was trying to illustrate that you can also achieve this with FilmConvert as well if you use it to create your own 4K grain plates.

Can film convert create pure even grain over a 6K middle gray plate and look consistent?

Where your original 6K scans done by shooting pure gray?

How many frames before the grain repeats?

WHY do you want to add grain in the first place?

IMPO it is like finding a beautiful 17 year old model with perfect skin and then adding acne in post because in the old days every teenager had pimples......

Don't look backwards, innovate forwards with the incredible tools we have to work with NOW.

 

[Luis Otero]

Hey all - just to let you know, the latest update has some new RED luts in it for RedLogFilm, and RedGamma3.

...

Hello Nigel,

Is there a way for us to subscribe our e-mail in order to be notified of new versions available?

Thanks!

 

[Martin Stevens]

WHY do you want to add grain in the first place?

IMPO it is like finding a beautiful 17 year old model with perfect skin and then adding acne in post because in the old days every teenager had pimples......

Don't look backwards, innovate forwards with the incredible tools we have to work with NOW.

Why add paint to a blank white canvas?

 

[BRANDON JAMESON]

Why add paint to a blank white canvas?

Although it’s a clever retort and an interesting question, I don’t see the comparison at all, Sir.
Actually, IMPO It's more akin to painting a copy of the Mona Lisa on a white canvas and then adding a crackled glaze and a wash of dirty varnish over it to make it seem like it is an authentic relic.
It happens all the time in the art world, but no matter how well it is done, it is still never going to be anything more than a counterfeit of an iconic original.

 

[Luis Otero]

... It's more akin to painting a copy of the Mona Lisa on a white canvas and then adding a crackled glaze and a wash of dirty varnish over it to make it seem like it is an authentic relic...

Excellent comparison.

 

[Andrew Benz]

Why derail a good conversation with absolute, pedantic bullshit that no one cares about?

 

[David Mullen ASC]

There's nothing wrong with sleight-of-hand and fakery in narrative filmmaking. Should a CGI effect in a movie shot in 35mm anamorphic avoid adding fake grain and anamorphic lens flares because it was solely created in a computer? Should we never add atmospheric haze to a scene where there would never be smoke in the air in real life? Should we only shoot night scenes at night? Can an actor only play a character that is his actual age?

Either the photographic technique works or it doesn't work, either it is justfiied or appropriate, or it isn't. By itself it's just a tool that can be used or abused.

Lets say you are hired to shoot a movie that the director wants to feel like it was made in the 1970's but for various reasons has to be shot on a digital camera. So if adding grain is forbidden because it is "false" then I suppose the actors can't wear fake sideburns and mustaches because that would be false too?

All that matters is the end result. If you add grain in post and no one questions it, and it adds something appropriate or narratively justified to the viewing experience, then it doesn't really matter whether the original raw files had it.

 

[Vadim Bobkovsky]

"Film look" and grain/texture is a grading choice these days, I believe the fun with filmmaking was all about the choices since long before digital. Why were they experimenting with developing film stocks one way or another, different chemicals and pushing film? The look, texture and feel. There's no need to say another word.

 

[Andrew Benz]

Perhaps it's your diet.

Perhaps you're an asshole who has nothing of value to say, enjoys being rude to other REDusers who have been here since day 1 and is also incredibly rude to REDuser sponsors by spouting shit that no one cares about. .

Guys like you suck the air right out of REDuser... You are the worst kind of troll: ignorant, annoying and absolutely full of shit.

Nice crack about my diet... Are you 5?

 

[David Mullen ASC]

You guys need to count to ten before posting... Leave out the personal jibes.

 

[Andrew Benz]

You guys need to count to ten before posting... Leave out the personal jibes.

I am very tired of guys like Brandon derailing good conversations because their ego dictates otherwise... If he had an ounce of shame, things like this would not happen. There should be no room for it.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Brandon is allowed to have a negative opinion about film grain emulation and he's allowed to post his opinion, though, yes, his initial post was a bit like a discussion on the best hamburger in town being interrupted by a post from a vegetarian questioning why anyone would eat meat. But it wasn't a personal attack so the responses didn't need to get personal.

 

[Andrew Benz]

Brandon is allowed to have a negative opinion about film grain emulation and he's allowed to post his opinion, though, yes, his initial post was a bit like a discussion on the best hamburger in town being interrupted by a post from a vegetarian questioning why anyone would eat meat. But it wasn't a personal attack so the responses didn't need to get personal.

I don't disagree with that at all. But repeating his nonsense over and over... No sir, I take extreme issue with that. Let's move this discussion back to topic. There are things germane to the subject that I would like to bring up when I get back from work.