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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Figured out the proxy to color repeating frame bug!

Gunleik Groven said:
So the question is:
Is there an easy path to load just one and one 2GB file into the L&T tool?
Click to expand...

Maybe if you temporarily moved the other files out of the directory, did L&T, then put them back. Kinda scary to do that though.

If there was a way to actually trim R3D files, that would make the whole thing a lot easier.
 
Let's stop for second.

Let's stop for second.

I understand y'all having problems with using Proxies inside Color is bumming you out. But let me play the devils advocate here.

No where in the Apple FCS workflow document do they say they support the workflow of using proxies in Color. Does it work to use proxies in Color? Maybe. Are there some problems? Maybe. On the surface, you can grade proxies in Color, but some are running into this frame repeating issue.

Also, let's flip this problem around for arguments sake. Color supports files bigger than 4 gb. So file size isn't the issue here. Mac OSX supports files bigger than 4 gb. So for arguments sake...why can't Red record files larger than 4 gb? Just a thought.

Again, Apple has not said it supports the grading of Proxies in Color, so I feel waiting for Apple to "fix this" is not necessarily focusing on the solution.
 
I see what you are saying about recording bigger files and I would love to know why red still uses fat32 instead of nfst (is that what it is called?) to get around this problem. So that's one issue. The color issue is that it doesn't know how to read spanning files--which should be fairly easy to fix. Both red and apple are limiting each other in reality.

It would be nice if you could bring the r3d files straight in and switch back and forth between proxy and native quality.
 
Michael Sandness said:
I understand y'all having problems with using Proxies inside Color is bumming you out. But let me play the devils advocate here.

No where in the Apple FCS workflow document do they say they support the workflow of using proxies in Color. Does it work to use proxies in Color? Maybe. Are there some problems? Maybe. On the surface, you can grade proxies in Color, but some are running into this frame repeating issue.

Also, let's flip this problem around for arguments sake. Color supports files bigger than 4 gb. So file size isn't the issue here. Mac OSX supports files bigger than 4 gb. So for arguments sake...why can't Red record files larger than 4 gb? Just a thought.

Again, Apple has not said it supports the grading of Proxies in Color, so I feel waiting for Apple to "fix this" is not necessarily focusing on the solution.
Click to expand...
1. We're not grading proxies in Color :)
2. If wrapping works, that's fine. Me happy
3. BUT if the problem persists (which it seems to) when you L&T spanned files, THEN one might need to wrap them individually.

Just thinkin' out loud here as I am locking a cut.

Cheers
 
Michael Sandness said:
I understand y'all having problems with using Proxies inside Color is bumming you out. But let me play the devils advocate here.

No where in the Apple FCS workflow document do they say they support the workflow of using proxies in Color. Does it work to use proxies in Color? Maybe. Are there some problems? Maybe. On the surface, you can grade proxies in Color, but some are running into this frame repeating issue.

Also, let's flip this problem around for arguments sake. Color supports files bigger than 4 gb. So file size isn't the issue here. Mac OSX supports files bigger than 4 gb. So for arguments sake...why can't Red record files larger than 4 gb? Just a thought.

Again, Apple has not said it supports the grading of Proxies in Color, so I feel waiting for Apple to "fix this" is not necessarily focusing on the solution.
Click to expand...


Well the obvious answer to your question is that Red media is formatted Fat32 to be accessible by Mac/PC equally. That being said, I am tired of the reliance on Fat32 for those reasons. But, we can't get around that yet, without Apple or Microsoft doing something drastic.

The problem with wrapping is a problem of space. An average Red based short film/music video comes in at either just under 500gb or a terabyte. Two hard drives are used on set, and more often than not, one of those hard drives finds life in the closet while the other is used as a work hard drive.

And yes, I'm talking about those projects that do their post cheap, without going to a house - because after all that's a huge portion of FCS/Red users.

So, more often than not, there's simply no space to re-wrap all that Red footage, and sometimes, there's not really the time.
 
IMHO, FAT32 is very outdated. Mac OS X can read NTFS, just like a PC. It can't write it out of the box (even that can be changed with Paragon NTFS), but why should it? We just want to ingest our RED footage.
So, please, let's drop that relic from computer stone-age ASAP!

OTOH if re-wrapping really is realiable for spanned clips, I don't see a point in not doing it. Storage is cheap, and I don't work from my backup disks anyway.
 
nomad said:
IMHO, FAT32 is very outdated. Mac OS X can read NTFS, just like a PC. It can't write it out of the box (even that can be changed with Paragon NTFS), but why should it? We just want to ingest our RED footage.
So, please, let's drop that relic from computer stone-age ASAP!

OTOH if re-wrapping really is realiable for spanned clips, I don't see a point in not doing it. Storage is cheap, and I don't work from my backup disks anyway.
Click to expand...

Exactly the point I was trying to make. Apple has instructed users to "rewrap" as they tested it and it works.
 
vladk said:
And yes, I'm talking about those projects that do their post cheap, without going to a house - because after all that's a huge portion of FCS/Red users.

So, more often than not, there's simply no space to re-wrap all that Red footage, and sometimes, there's not really the time.
Click to expand...

I guess we can offer another choice to the good, fast, cheap analogy...

Good, fast, cheap, not enough storage
 
Sure, as is with most tough film situations, this can be thrown to the "deal with it" category. Get more storage, or face the consequences. But I still feel it seems tad unnecessary.

I don't know the technical reason why FCS bugs with span clips, but forcing rewrap due to that, as opposed to working out the bug, seems the unelegant solution.
 
I can't reproduce the problem with clips spanning several files if they are wrapped in L&T instead of using plain proxies, as recommended in the whitepaper. I rendered more than 20 minutes in Color to DPXs and Prores and there's not one frame missing.

Anybody else getting the bug if not using proxies but wraps?
 
nomad said:
I can't reproduce the problem with clips spanning several files if they are wrapped in L&T instead of using plain proxies, as recommended in the whitepaper. I rendered more than 20 minutes in Color to DPXs and Prores and there's not one frame missing.

Anybody else getting the bug if not using proxies but wraps?
Click to expand...

After an extensive test I also could not reproduce the bug with wrapped files in L&T.
 
L&T ingests spanned files into 1 *.mov file which seems to work fine in Color and back to FCP. The only pitfall occurs if the working drive is fat32 (which has a 4GB max) forcing a failure while ingesting in L&T.
 
Joyfool said:
L&T ingests spanned files into 1 *.mov file which seems to work fine in Color and back to FCP. The only pitfall occurs if the working drive is fat32 (which has a 4GB max) forcing a failure while ingesting in L&T.
Click to expand...

Good point. Thanks.
 
Guys, I told you pages ago that this bug would only appear in the proxy workflow. This issue is the very reason, I believe, that RED didn't just go with the proxy to color workflow. If Color could read those spanned files correctly, don't you think RED would have just stuck with the proxies? That workflow is far quicker and easier than the native workflow.

Matthew
 
Great Info ...
 
QT proxy don't work, but only QT wrapped from L&T

QT proxy don't work, but only QT wrapped from L&T

Matthew Rogers said:
If Color could read those spanned files correctly, don't you think RED would have just stuck with the proxies?
Matthew
Click to expand...

You'r right but I didn't see it written clearly in the white paper. We all thought finding another fast and easy workaround.:biggrin:

Will stick with L&T.

Thanks to all.

Patrick
 
As to repeat frame "bug".

If there's a spanned clip, both clips next to it can show repeat frames, even though they're not spanned. When that clip is log & transfered, all three clips work.

I'll write a good deal more on this in my blog, but that seems to be the issue.

Depending on project/scene, proxies can still save you a lot of time (if most clips are not spanned) and work exelently.

Just made a 7 minute short (mostly) ready for Color this way.

Just have to finnish the DPX'ing of the shots that are to be reframed and composited...

I'll write a thorough thing here:
http://twenty398.com/
Cheers!
G
 
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