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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Field Sound Recording Equipment

Lonzo N

Lonzo N

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Location
Toronto, Canada
Website
www.alphagalorefilms.com
Looking to buy a good professional sound recording gear to be used in shooting independent films. Can you guys recommend something good. Budget is between 2 to 3k. I already have a Rode NT2
 
A $3k budget is not much for film work, as a good mic can run that much.
My suggestion would be to contact someone like Trew that carries used pro gear.
You might be able to stretch your budget a little farther going with top of the line used gear.
Good Luck!
 
Your Rode NT2 is completely useless for Film Production Sound.
I suggest hiring a sound mixer with the $ when you do your next project.
 
What is the subject ? Drama, Wildlife, Factual, Music ?
 
I'd buy a Sound Devices 722T recorder, and rent microphones on a per project basis. The problem with RED audio is it doesn't have very good preamps and A/D converters. The Sound Devices is an outstanding recorder and will make whatever you record sound great. You can rent a Schoeps or Sennheiser MKH 50 or something like that for $25/day or $75/week. That is, if you've got a good rental place nearby.
 
for lower budget indie stuff:

buy a used 416 and plug it straight into the camera... or at most run it through a small field mixer, and then into the camera. you could also try a sony wired lav or a sennheiser wireless lav... both very cheap used. don't get sucked into wirelss though, you can run a wired lav more times then you think. don't waste your time recording separate sound. It will be a nightmare in post & you'll be surprised how much location sound you will replace in post anyway. If you know a budding sound person, try to get them to work on the film, but still record straight into the camera
 
Sorry Chris, I couldn't disagree more with everything you've said. Good sound on low budget stuff is precisely what gets a director noticed, because most low budget films do exactly what you're suggesting, and as a result, come off badly to the audience. Separate sound is only nightmare in post with an editor who doesn't know what he's doing, and if that's the case, get a new editor.
 
Neil Uchitel said:
Sorry Chris, I couldn't disagree more with everything you've said. Good sound on low budget stuff is precisely what gets a director noticed, because most low budget films do exactly what you're suggesting, and as a result, come off badly to the audience. Separate sound is only nightmare in post with an editor who doesn't know what he's doing, and if that's the case, get a new editor.
Click to expand...

First about the editor. A true editor is not required to know everything about work-flows. They cut scenes and shots in a creative way that best serve the story. The better the editor, the less they know about things technical. No one wants to believe that, but it's the truth. We need to respect editors as creative partners not as tech heads.

Syncing sound in post to a Red project can be a nightmare. I've worked with very talented and respected people that struggle with it. I'm currently working on two feature films that suffer this issue. Everyone is a pro and takes it seriously. It's not fair to assume that if someone doesn't know something, they are incompetent and should be fired. I could get into the tech side of the issue, but maybe in a later post.

Now, I never said not to take sound seriously. What is it that you're suggesting that I'm suggesting? :) All you need is a good solid recording of the dialogue. In big-budget situations with trained pros, this is still very hard. Location sounds step on dialogue, passing traffic, location crap, cutting this delivery with part of that one--it's all a bit of a mess. That's why most films replace more dialogue then we realize.

In the end, what has struck me, is how little of the location sound one might use. And great sound comes less from the location, and more from the sound designer, composer, and mixer. Yes the Red audio could be better, but it's easily good enough for most projects (when recored at decent levels--I agree) Some very amazing films were recored on systems with less capability. I once shot an odd mockumentary using a GL-1 and a Beachtek and the sound was amazing. We got compliments like crazy. We had great mics and recored fat signals, but that's about all you can do in the best case.

The sound designer, dialogue cutter, and mixer are what make sound sing. Most indie films take short-cuts in post sound and it always shows. I think a great mic recorded into the Red will work fine for most indie films.
 
thanks for all your input. I ordered the SD 702T and also a sennheiser 416. Now quick question, i heared thatr the 416 is not that good indoors. I'm not sure about this. If so, which Mic is best for interior shoot.
 
Lonzo N said:
thanks for all your input. I ordered the SD 702T and also a sennheiser 416. Now quick question, i heared thatr the 416 is not that good indoors. I'm not sure about this. If so, which Mic is best for interior shoot.
Click to expand...

So you ordered a 2 channel recorder with time code and a mic for exterior shooting. Do you have other gear that we don't know about? Because you are missing the rest of the components you are going to need.

That is why I suggested you call someone like Trew, because you have not given us all the info needed to make a proper equipment listing.
 
I think this question is a very important one (not just the equipment question, but the overall investment in sound overall, including soundman, mics, mixer and audio editing). It is determined IMHO first by the style and scope of production and second by the budget.

Sound on location or on set can cost a lot in time, so that is an argument for doing more in post. If sound is important, then the skill of the sound wo/man is more important than the quality of the hardware. Conversely, you can have all the fancy mixers and mics in the world, but if the sound man is a mook, your tracks will be crap anyway.

In a big movie, almost all the sound work is often done in post.

So if it's a low-budget job with high expectations, I'd spend the money on the soundman and rent the gear, or buy good but basic mics and mixer and go straight into the camera, or get a low-cost recorder like the TASCAM HD-P2 Portable. This recorder has time code and its technical quality is fine, but its plastic case means it will be less rugged for hard professional use. There is a wide assortment of affordable mics out there, but again, the opinion of a professional soundman will determine what is acceptable within your budget.
 
I just ordered those from BH videos. If there are other equipments you can recommend just go ahead and let me know. If I have it then , I will not need to buy it again. I had a rode nt2 but i noticed it wont be good enough. I intend to use the 416 for both int and ext recording. I was just trying to find out if its all i need in terms of mic.
 
Lonzo N said:
thanks for all your input. I ordered the SD 702T and also a sennheiser 416. Now quick question, i heared thatr the 416 is not that good indoors. I'm not sure about this. If so, which Mic is best for interior shoot.
Click to expand...

Im not sure this is valid. A 416 is fine indoors but all short guns are not as tightly controlled for their polar pattern as they are outdoors due to reflections of the walls. The only thing about a 416 is it phases on pans so beware of it if you move the mic on a pole.

Audio wise the best investment you can make is in a microphone, they will hold value and be very reliable. its a bit like a lens if its wrong or bad in some way nothing downstream is going to sort it out the problem for you. Choose the best, Shoepps, Sennheiser, or whatever but it must be good. Also chose good suspension and wind gag. Rycote still rule for a reason.

The present state of the art if you can call it that is the combination of mic and preamp and finding a combination of something that sounds nice. I choose SQN mixers myself but Sound devices also make good mixers and recorders, you may find an older Cooper that would server you well. I have 3 SQN mixers and all are ultra reliable over many years. The preamps sound fine. Whilst its a different discipline if you check over the music audio boards, REW, Gearslutz etc there are various threads running about the sound of different mic/preamp combinations to give you an idea of the effect that different preamps can have. Im not suggesting you use exotic preamps for day to day location work but you might for a music feature. For day to day work something uncoloured would be best and would be most versatile.

If you using Red or any camcorder to record to Id still opt for an external mic amp/mixer and drive the camera line level. Assuming that the camera is not causing any coloration then it should be perfectly fine to use. Critically, line the camera up properly to the mixers tone and check this at the start of any location change or if you suspect any changes to input settings inadvertent or not.

Dave
 
Lonzo N said:
I just ordered those from BH videos. If there are other equipments you can recommend just go ahead and let me know. If I have it then , I will not need to buy it again. I had a rode nt2 but i noticed it wont be good enough. I intend to use the 416 for both int and ext recording. I was just trying to find out if its all i need in terms of mic.
Click to expand...

Well there ya go, can't go wrong with those two items. Hopefully BHPhoto is honoring the Sennheiser 416 Dec. promo and giving you the blimp for free!

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=956

You CAN use the 416 for interiors.. if your interior room is on the dead side.
Otherwise use a hypercardiod for inside.
How about a TC slate?
Master TC clock?
Boom pole?
Cables?
Extra batteries for the SD702T?
Flash Cards?
cases........

It's a sickness!

And then there's your project. You won't be able to do it alone.
 
Hey trailangel, which hypercardiod cand you recommend. I got boom pole, cables already. Is TC slate necessary and can you recommend brand. And if possible recommend any good brands of any item you recommended.

With the 702T, is a mixer and ore amp a must have? Or can I do without them.
 
You can get by without TC slate, but you need cheap clapper slate.
For people in LA... use Denecke Slate because they are here close.

You don't need mixer if just 1-2 mics into SD702T.. you will be fine.

If you can afford Schoeps CMC641 mic.... get that, but Audio Technica or Octava or really any good condenser hypercardiod will do.
Sennhiser makes good very small mkh 8050 I think is model number.
Also Senn MKH 50 really, really good. Senn MKH Radio Frequency series really rugged and can handle some moisture and they have less handling noise then Schoeps or Octava...... to each his own.... many choices.
Haven't used 8050, but hear has handing noise.

When all said and done after post production.. can you really tell what mic was used? When you go to a theater and watch current release film, can you tell which mic was used where.. no you can't.

Boom handling noise will be an issue with hyper mic. Use
Rycote Invision mounts:

http://www.rycote.com/products/families/invision/

Or this cheapshit PSC Universal mount:

http://www.professionalsound.com/specs/shock_mnts.htm
 
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MKH50 or CMC641 Would hold their value for years which is why they are the best. Also look for an older Sennheiser MKH 435 if you are short on funds. 435 in appearance looks like a short 416 but previous generation, its still a great mic.
 
I'm sorry and don't mean to be rude, but do yourself a BIG favor and hire a professional audio person that knows this stuff!
Or at least Talk to one in person rather than trying to gleam the internet over what I consider to be a issue of HUGE Importance, Your Sound!
After all, Who is actually going to be using this gear? You certainly don't seem to be qualified. Does an audio professional even fit into your picture? If so why not involve them on the front end!
 
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