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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

FF35 Cine Glass: Get Ready

MaxAMillion said:
the pictures from the D3x (24mp) and nikons 14-24mm F/2.8 are incredible.

The 14-24 extreme edge sharpness is through the roof even wide open.

http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikk...4-24mm-f28-g-ed-n-test-report--review?start=1

Rumor is nikon has had the D3x on the drawing board for sometime and their new lenses seem to resolve really nice with the 24mp sensor (perfect fit); Its like the knew this would be an issue and got it right.

I thank the new nikon zooms and zeiss zf primes are the way to go if you want the most out of the FF35. But only time will tell... Plus they are cheap :)
Click to expand...

isn't that zoom designed for APS-C? and since it's an AF wouldn't the focus throw be really short?
 
MaxAMillion said:
the pictures from the D3x (24mp) and nikons 14-24mm F/2.8 are incredible.

The 14-24 extreme edge sharpness is through the roof even wide open.
Click to expand...

If it was f/1.2 I'd have no hesitation whatsoever. At f/2.8, it does not give you any advantage in low light shooting (when FF35 is compelling) over a MP14mm on S35.

Another drawback would be short focus throw.

Otherwise, yes, it is a good lens.
 
remember the low noise FF35 sensor

remember the low noise FF35 sensor

Pawel Achtel said:
If it was f/1.2 I'd have no hesitation whatsoever. At f/2.8, it does not give you any advantage in low light shooting (when FF35 is compelling) over a MP14mm on S35.

Another drawback would be short focus throw.

Otherwise, yes, it is a good lens.
Click to expand...
Can you explain your statement?
do you really not see the advantage of shooting FF35 sensor with squeeky clean images at ISO 1600/2000 (Nikon/Canon) and the FOV factor of 1.35x for S35 and 1.53x for R1 sensor?
You would have to use 10mm lens on S35 to match the FOV of 14mm lens on FF35 and you would have to use 9mm lens on R1 to match the FOV of 14mm lens on FF35 sensor.
The UP 10mm is T 2.1, isn't it? Only one stop slower than the Nikon and not a zoom. And the Price?!!
14mm MP on S35 is equivalent of 19mm lens on FF35 sensor camera
14mm MP on R1 is equivalent of 21.5mm lens on FF35 sensor camera
Jacek Zakowicz, OptiTek
 
Pawel Achtel said:
If it was f/1.2 I'd have no hesitation whatsoever. At f/2.8, it does not give you any advantage in low light shooting (when FF35 is compelling) over a MP14mm on S35.

Another drawback would be short focus throw.

Otherwise, yes, it is a good lens.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Many people seem to overlook the 2.5 stops (approx) advantage in this case, if MP's were F2.8 (T3 approx) they would be smaller and very much cheaper.

Stephen
 
A 14-24mm zoom with a stop of f1.2 would be impossible (more or less) to make with any quality resoultion. It's just pushing optical design to far.
 
OptiTek said:
Can you explain your statement?
do you really not see the advantage of shooting FF35 sensor with squeeky clean images at ISO 1600/2000 (Nikon/Canon) and the FOV factor of 1.35x for S35 and 1.53x for R1 sensor?
14mm MP on S35 is equivalent of 19mm lens on FF35 sensor camera
14mm MP on R1 is equivalent of 21.5mm lens on FF35 sensor camera
Jacek Zakowicz, OptiTek
Click to expand...

Stephen just explained it for me. :biggrin:

I can see advantages of FF35 sensor but, at this stage, there isn't a fast (like f/1.2), sharp, ultra-wide angle (14mm - 24mm on FF35) lens that would make this format attractive. There are some decent slower FF35 lenses, but in good lighting conditions the advantages of FF35 diminish.

Angle of view is less of an issue. 14mm on S35 (or 21mm on FF35) is plenty wide. I wouldn't use wider lens very often as composing the shot would be very tricky.
 
Real estate between the exit pupil and the sensor is beginning to become available as its old tenants (mirrors and optical assemblies) vacate the premises. At the same time, I've read that microlens technology has improved enough that sensor angular response is now as good as film.

I wonder if someone out there is taking notice of all that available space and good angular response. Maybe they're planning to capitalize on it with new lenses that do not have to conform to arbitrary flange focal distances or costly telecentricity requirements. Imagine wide primes that are faster with even higher image quality. (Upcoming RED lenses, perhaps?)
 
Hmmm, good point, Daniel. A lens like this would probably come from someone like Red or even Zeiss. I can't see Canon or Nikon stepping in. They are bogged down too deep with the mirror legacy.

I do hope Red will produce even f/1.6 FF35 wide cine glass, at which point it would be very tempting choice over UPs, MPs and S4s if sharpness and mechanics were comparable. It would make perfect sense for FF35 Scarlet and Epic...
 
I think f/2.8 will be fast enough on FF35 for most occasions, especially if the sensor's ISO/ASA rating is high. Frankly, with the 5D2, the camera is so damn fast, I find myself trying to slow it down, by stopping down or turning down the ISO. In moonlight, my still astro shots are no longer measured in amounts like 15s or 20s, more like fractions of a second or 3s or 5s. At FF35, f/2.8 should artistically work well. You might not even want to be that wide open most of the time!
 
I am trying to wrap my head around shooting at real big apertures with FF35 but I do notice that this conversation is focusing on super wide focal lengths... however I have no way of knowing how deep the focus pane remains at something like FF35 f1.6 14mm?

Obviously it isn't just a few inches or Pawel wouldn't be able to keep up with sea creatures.

I see it more like being able to shoot FF35 would give me a 75 degree FOV at f2.0 with a ZF 28mm which costs virtually nothing. And that makes me very happy cause there is a lot that can be done without the need for wider lenses. Add to that a Tokina 11-16mm 2.8f and I am set with only having spend $4,000 out of my budget on glass. Also the FOV of the 50mm goes up to 47 degrees which is not that impossible to operate, right? This lets me shoot my night exteriors at f1.4 which would mean that my tiny eclectic package might be quite awesome considering that everything will also be covered in snow. Of course, we'd still have quite the shaky look with the 50mm, but I purposely wrote only two scenes night ext and made them exactly the type of turning point scenes that benefit from a little shake. Then whenever we need the 11mm it would either be bright enough outside or we'd have plenty of light for the interiors. This leaves only one worry that I can forsee, and that is not being able to break down walls to get enough distance from the subjects so as to avoid the weirdness I feel when I see people too close to ultra wide lenses. So I guess I am going to have to take a close look at my furniture to see if I can help it... I just hope we don't have to shoot though open windows cause I don't have enough budget to keep my crew happy if I am making freeze like that. hehe... j/k about that
biggrin.gif
 
I understand that I could rent a set of 5 super speeds for a little under that amount, but that is only if nobody else has them out. And also this is all geared towards the hope that we'll be able to purchase a basic film FF35 Scarlet package which would allow us to shoot some stuff here in LA and reserve the full principal photography schedule for the cold stuff up in Minnesota.

Then we could either sell it back or get ready to use it on the next project, possibly rent it a few times... and the only drawback I know of besides the slower speeds would be the focusing ring feel and I keep hearing wonderful things about it. Most of these lenses have quite the long throws based on what I remember from the ZF thread.
 
USlatin said:
I understand that I could rent a set of 5 super speeds for a little under that amount, but that is only if nobody else has them out. And also this is all geared towards the hope that we'll be able to purchase a basic film FF35 Scarlet package which would allow us to shoot some stuff here in LA and reserve the full principal photography schedule for the cold stuff up in Minnesota.

Then we could either sell it back or get ready to use it on the next project, possibly rent it a few times... and the only drawback I know of besides the slower speeds would be the focusing ring feel and I keep hearing wonderful things about it. Most of these lenses have quite the long throws based on what I remember from the ZF thread.
Click to expand...

By FF35 I take it you mean a 24x36mm format like in a still camera. I don't think Zeiss super speed cine lenses will cover that format.
 
I guess I assumed that... I also sent them the question to their support page on their website but if you find out sooner pls let me know.

I guess I thought that because of the D700 and D3 being full frame. But it does make it exponentially more expensive I guess, and I never checked to see if the tests were done with FF35 or just looking at the smaller sizes of sensors for DSLRs which are right about S35.
 
Cine lenses do not cover FF35!!!

Cine lenses do not cover FF35!!!

Just when I thought this one has been beaten to death.....
There are graphics, charts and images all over this forum-if you only took 2 minutes to do research before posting.... I know-dream on.
Cine lenses cover 31mm circle diameter while FF35 is 43mm circle diameter-
Factor of 1.35x(simply divide 43/31).
Longer lenses above 50mm cover more because it does not make much difference for the designer so they are more generous with coverage to extract the sweet spot.
Any bets how long before someone will post this question again?
Jacek Zakowicz, OptiTek:tongue:
 
USlatin said:
I guess I assumed that... I also sent them the question to their support page on their website but if you find out sooner pls let me know.

I guess I thought that because of the D700 and D3 being full frame. But it does make it exponentially more expensive I guess, and I never checked to see if the tests were done with FF35 or just looking at the smaller sizes of sensors for DSLRs which are right about S35.
Click to expand...

Sounds like your talking about the ZF lenses and not the cine. The ZFs cover FF35, the cines don't.
 
Andrew, are you sure? Thanks for answering. I can't wait to hear definite confirmation cause I really took that for granted. I thought I made it absolutely clear that I was talking about Zeiss ZF lenses and the new 11-16 Tokina, also still.

PS: Pls don't shoot! You can have my money. Here...

Opti, I hope you weren't answering to my post. These take me a long time to write cause I am no DP so I tried hard to be clear and thought I was.
 
I just assumed when you said "super speeds" you were speaking of the Zeiss cine lenses.
I hope optitek will forgive my ignorance of photographic optics.
 
You were right, I did mention Zeiss Super Speeds. I was only bringing them up as the option within the reach of our infinitesimal budget. For $3,600 I could rent a set of 5 super speeds (if they were not rented to someone else) and use them with S35 Scarlet. In that scenario we'd have the 18mm on the S35 as our widest end.

This might just be a big confusion sparked only due to my huge wall of text. I apologize for that... I just feel the need to triple check everything, and to try to run it by you guys (for free :whistling: ) since I am quite ignorant when it comes to photography.
 
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