Female DITs

[Tom Dowler]

First i’d invite everyone who responded above to examine their own privilege.

Secondly, here’s a little mental flowchart for you:

Women are vastly underrepresented in the film industry, particularly in technical roles (like DIT).

Either: you believe that there is some inherent deficiency that comes with being a woman that accounts for this discrepancy (in which case you’re a sexist)...

...or you accept that there are systemic issues (from a lack of role models, to gender bias in education, to discriminatory hiring practices) that lead to this lopsidedness.

Assuming you’re not a sexist and you accept there are systemic issues, what effect do you think a “I just hire the best people irrespective of gender” attitude has? Does it help address the imbalance or does it compound it? I believe that if you’re not part of the solution , you’re part of the problem.

I don’t see anywhere that Peter said he’d didn’t want the best person for the job. Why would you assume that if he wants to hire a woman, she *wouldn’t * be the best person for the job?

Thirdly, i’ll refer you back to part 1. Rather than trying to prove me wrong please instead examine your privilege.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Challenge accepted! :smile5:

First i’d invite everyone who responded above to examine their own privilege.

1) What privilege? Is this about privileges?
2) Am I privileged by being a male or handicapped by not being a female? Does being a male make me a lesser DIT (not that I'm a DIT, I do other stuff)?

Secondly, here’s a little mental flowchart for you:

Women are vastly underrepresented in the film industry, particularly in technical roles (like DIT).

1) Is that male film industry or female film industry?
2) Male technical roles or female technical roles?
3) Underrepresented by whom? By men? Aliens?
4) If the Script says Melanie or Catherine, does that mean that some Josh or Nick gets automatically neglected? Or underrepresented?
5) Do you specify a camera or ARRI?
Dafuq...:rofl:

Either: you believe that there is some inherent deficiency that comes with being a woman that accounts for this discrepancy (in which case you’re a sexist)...

Naaah, I believe there's some inherent superiority that comes with being a women...:rofl:

NOT!

...or you accept that there are systemic issues (from a lack of role models, to gender bias in education, to discriminatory hiring practices) that lead to this lopsidedness.

Would you, please, stop inventing problems?!

Assuming you’re not a sexist and you accept there are systemic issues, what effect do you think a “I just hire the best people irrespective of gender” attitude has? Does it help address the imbalance or does it compound it? I believe that if you’re not part of the solution , you’re part of the problem.

What systemic issues? What imbalance? A DIT is a DIT, see above.

I don’t see anywhere that Peter said he’d didn’t want the best person for the job. Why would you assume that if he wants to hire a woman, she *wouldn’t * be the best person for the job?

Thirdly, i’ll refer you back to part 1. Rather than trying to prove me wrong please instead examine your privilege.

:facepalm:

Let me rephrase what OP said!

And if you pay close attention, there's Female in the title - in the first place...like, literally. :rofl:

 

[Marc Wielage]

Women are vastly underrepresented in the film industry, particularly in technical roles (like DIT). Either: you believe that there is some inherent deficiency that comes with being a woman that accounts for this discrepancy (in which case you’re a sexist)... ...or you accept that there are systemic issues (from a lack of role models, to gender bias in education, to discriminatory hiring practices) that lead to this lopsidedness.

I don't believe in giving anybody an artificial advantage or disadvantage solely on the basis of sex or identity or anything else. California EOE state law (similar to NY and other states) says you can't advertise for job candidates favoring:

Sex, gender (including pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding or related medical conditions)
Sexual orientation
Gender identity/gender expression
Genetic information

among many other things. That doesn't mean there can't be a private conversation between (say) the producer and the director and the DP that says, "hey, let's make sure we open this job position up to women." What they can't say is, "if you have the choice between a man who's absolutely brilliant and a woman who's merely good, let's hire the woman because we can." You can also advertise saying, "we'd seeking people who are talented and well-qualified, and we're particularly open to women and minorities." I think that sends a message of openness and not discrimination or favoritism per se.

I have seen business discrimination lawsuits filed over less. There's a lot of "isms" out there, particularly ageism, racism, and barriers to people from other countries and cultures.

 

[Uros Zuraj]

Women are vastly underrepresented in the film industry, particularly in technical roles (like DIT).

ask yourself how many women go into film industry compare to male counterparts, probably close to what the ratio on set is. there is a lack of interest by women to be in a cameracrew.
I work alot with female 1AC/Focuspullers and 2ACs, have no problem with that. They are as qualified as males if not more and they never had a sexist denial from a male coworker. I even saw a female filmstudent come onto the set as 2AC for the first time and she got much more help from boys and much more explaining then I ever did when I first started as 2AC. They expected I knew most of the stuff already... My opinion is that at least in a camera crew situation there is not alot of sexism or any. Maybe there is more and more "lets give females a chance" over getting a more qualified male to that position because of all this feminist media pressure. What this topic is showing as well.
Saying again - only talking from my experience.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

California EOE state law (similar to NY and other states) says you can't advertise for job candidates favoring:

Sex, gender (including pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding or related medical conditions)
Sexual orientation
Gender identity/gender expression
Genetic information

I'm expecting gender navigation, gender imagination, gender utilization, gender negation, sex co-habitation, sex valorization, sex utilization, sex fixation, sex frustration, sex re-formation, gender sexualization, sex genderization, cyber dehumanization and genetic mutation to follow.



Btw, this topic went off course with unnecessary drama based on misinterpretation of Peter's post.

 

[Misha Engel]

Perspective matters

 

[John Brawley]

I am trying to crew my departments with as many qualified females as possible.

The OP didn't say he was excluding men, he simply stated he wanted to crew with "QUALIFIED" female crew. I presume if he can't find woman that meet his requirements he would open it up.

It doesn't matter how many second AC's that are women and are your best friends...they are disadvantaged in all kinds of ways.

Female representation in the camera department is amongst the worst on set.

Only about 4% of the ASC membership are women. I can't think of many other professions where a 4% female participation rate would be tolerated and defended.

We've only just recently for the first time in the entire history of oscars had a FEMALE cinematography nominee. 90 odd years. No women nominated. That's our collective problem.

The other massive problem is that we're all MEN talking about this issue. Not a single female voice has posted here. They're not even part of this conversation.

JB

 

[Nick Morrison]

The OP didn't say he was excluding men, he simply stated he wanted to crew with "QUALIFIED" female crew. I presume if he can't find woman that meet his requirements he would open it up.

It doesn't matter how many second AC's that are women and are your best friends...they are disadvantaged in all kinds of ways.

Female representation in the camera department is amongst the worst on set.

Only about 4% of the ASC membership are women. I can't think of many other professions where a 4% female participation rate would be tolerated and defended.

We've only just recently for the first time in the entire history of oscars had a FEMALE cinematography nominee. 90 odd years. No women nominated. That's our collective problem.

The other massive problem is that we're all MEN talking about this issue. Not a single female voice has posted here. They're not even part of this conversation.

JB

John you said what I was trying to - and much better.

Thanks

 

[Sabovic Adis]

The OP didn't say he was excluding men, he simply stated he wanted to crew with "QUALIFIED" female crew. I presume if he can't find woman that meet his requirements he would open it up.

It doesn't matter how many second AC's that are women and are your best friends...they are disadvantaged in all kinds of ways.

Female representation in the camera department is amongst the worst on set.

Only about 4% of the ASC membership are women. I can't think of many other professions where a 4% female participation rate would be tolerated and defended.

We've only just recently for the first time in the entire history of oscars had a FEMALE cinematography nominee. 90 odd years. No women nominated. That's our collective problem.

The other massive problem is that we're all MEN talking about this issue. Not a single female voice has posted here. They're not even part of this conversation.

JB

No, we're all humans here!
The fact that someone is trying to split us, divide us into men and women (guess what for!), well, that's completely different story - and it's called sexism.

 

[Misha Engel]

The other massive problem is that we're all MEN talking about this issue. Not a single female voice has posted here. They're not even part of this conversation.

JB

Maybe they just don't give a sh*t about being a DIT and rather do something else with their valuable time.

In a European country they want quota on male teachers for primary schools, at least 30% male (it's 10% male teachers at the moment), it won't work.
In that same country more women than men graduate from university, give it some time and let it come naturally.

 

[John Brawley]

well, that's completely different story - and it's called sexism.

Don't you think 4% participation rate is the same thing ? Do you think that's OK ? Do you think it's acceptable to have that kind of number ?

JB

 

[Jason Johnson]

This has certainly derailed.

I recommended Tiffany not because she is a woman that happens to be a DIT but because she is a fantastic DIT that happens to be woman. I know almost every professional DIT in the country. I have worked with Tiffany for several years and do not know anyone that respects the craft more than she does.

Do not villainize Peter or claim sexism because your view is too narrow-minded to accept that you are on the wrong side of history. He did not come here and ask about the benefits of shooting with an Alexa over a Monstro. He came here to ask a simple question and was rebuked. The female population of the world is almost 51%. If you want to complain about representation, sexist hirings, and American culture trying to overcome the idea that half of the population is not born inferior then you need to start your own thread and stop poisoning the well.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Let me tell you what I think:

Don't you think 4% participation rate is the same thing ?

Who gives a rat's ass about that? I don't. ut:
Whose business exactly is running this kind of statistics? :skep:
Is there a stats for lefties and righties too? Male lefties and female lefties, six-footers vs seven-ones? Overweight? Nearsighted?
Woman - so what? 4% - so effin what? The point?! :frown2:

Do you think that's OK ? Do you think it's acceptable to have that kind of number ?

JB

According to this, there was 3,776,294,273 males and 3,710,295,643 females in the world (2017). But, what does it mean: that 65.998.630 men are too many and should be killed off, that there should be 65,998,630 women more on the planet, that genetic engineering went sideways because someone screwed something up? Dafuq's that mean? WTF cares...:rofl:

And there's this:

:thumbsup:

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Peter's request is perfectly healthy in his own mind. I would never accuse him of bad intent. But it verges on being illegal, it's immoral, it's misguided, and it is beneath him as a professional. Still, I believe in liberty first and foremost, and he can hire anyone he wants.

If Peter hired me to make his coffee every morning at 5am, I'd be honoured.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Guys... Chill...

For whatever reason Peter seems to want to address the crazy discrepancy in our industry.

Some (like I) will salute him.
Others, clearly won't.

But I think this discussion needs to stay on-topic, which is Peters request. Sorry for whatever I did to derail it.

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

Wow gang, I was simply asking if anyone had names and numbers on female DITs in NYC. I have many male DITs in NYC. I have now met with 6 male NYC DITs.

In my naiveté and inexperience I guess, I was simply exploring choices. I do think we have had a male centric film industry and I would, as I have in the past, like to have a diverse crew. I believe I had an easier time breaking in as a DP because I was a young male. Last year at the ASC awards dinner they asked that female DP stand up. Only 5 women. Sad.

I apologize if this was mis-construed.

 

[Misha Engel]

I apologize if this was mis-construed.

Why?

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Peter. I applaud you.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

Wow gang, I was simply asking if anyone had names and numbers on female DITs in NYC. I have many male DITs in NYC. I have now met with 6 male NYC DITs.

In my naiveté and inexperience I guess, I was simply exploring choices. I do think we have had a male centric film industry and I would, as I have in the past, like to have a diverse crew. I believe I had an easier time breaking in as a DP because I was a young male. Last year at the ASC awards dinner they asked that female DP stand up. Only 5 women. Sad.

I apologize if this was mis-construed.

Peter, I, too, salute you. So many people don't know what they don't know when it comes to diversity and inclusion. You are asking the right questions, and the hostility of some of the answers demonstrates precisely why it is so important to be courageous in how you ultimately answer them. Here's hoping you recruit a fantastic team and create and awesome product!

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Can't believe the poltroonery...:rofl: