fcp-x, full debayer export?

[Carl Dieker]

will fcp-x do a full debayer when exporting a 5k project to prores?

 

[Ward Geerts]

If you set your playback preferences to high quality it will do a full debayer 5K proress yes.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Where is this documented? I can find no documentation that says this.

**also, if using a red rocket card...if you go to system preferences and click on redcode there are no listings for full debayer only:
Half High: (a high quality, but slower half-res debayer)
Half Standard: (a good quality and faster half res debayer
Auto: also half debayer

**Trying to find WHERE or how we can get a full debayer from FCPX

 

[Bob Gundu]

Yes it's vague. I would assume playback setting are for playback only and that it would render full res on output?

 

[Scott Crawley]

Yes it's vague. I would assume playback setting are for playback only and that it would render full res on output?

Yes this. It is in the docs.. I will see if I can find it for you all.

I think it is in the Red plugin documentation. Hang on...

Nope not in the plugin docs. I'll check the Vimeo on the plug...

 

[Johnny Friday]

I've looked around trying to find WHERE one can find settings for full or half debayer, but can't find anything. I only find within REDcode QT settings half debayer--it does not say that those settings are for playback....it only says Half-res decode mode---not exactly sure what that means. But i took it to mean just that--half res-debayer....But please do post if you find actual literature on settings. I would be surprised if FCPX did anything BUT half debayer just by looking at the settings i've seen already.

 

[Scott Crawley]

I've looked around trying to find WHERE one can find settings for full or half debayer, but can't find anything. I only find within REDcode QT settings half debayer--it does not say that those settings are for playback....it only says Half-res decode mode---not exactly sure what that means. But i took it to mean just that--half res-debayer....But please do post if you find actual literature on settings. I would be surprised if FCPX did anything BUT half debayer just by looking at the settings i've seen already.

It is done in the Playback settings. Better performance=1/4 debayer playback without RR card and 1/2 debayer with RR card while Better quality is 1/2 and full debayer respectively. That is in the vimeo, as for where I read that the output is always full debayer I'm going to have to think on it more.

see 1:23

 

[David Battistella]

I've looked around trying to find WHERE one can find settings for full or half debayer, but can't find anything. I only find within REDcode QT settings half debayer--it does not say that those settings are for playback....it only says Half-res decode mode---not exactly sure what that means. But i took it to mean just that--half res-debayer....But please do post if you find actual literature on settings. I would be surprised if FCPX did anything BUT half debayer just by looking at the settings i've seen already.

John,

This is how I view it.

When you are looking at QT settings I think it is for legacy QT and FCP 7 for FCS studio. My logic is that FCP 7 is a 2K program thus hlf res is all that is needed to view and playback in FCP 7 or Apple Color (for people still using those systems.

Within FCP X I believe that without a Rocket you are getting 1/2 res when setting you playback quality for editing and then FULL quality from the R3D on render. So if you are set to max quality in the FCP preference pane (after you finished an EDIT with proxies for example) the software then reads ALL of the available r3d 5K data in order to render final product.

That seems to be the logic behind FCP X, it takes the best quality and processes it, it scales the quality back (when you ask it to) while you are working.

David

 

[Johnny Friday]

It is done in the Playback settings. Better performance=1/4 debayer playback without RR card and 1/2 debater with RR card while Better quality is 1/2 and full debayer respectively. That is in the vimeo, as for where I read that the output is always full debayer I'm going to have to think on it more.

Scott, that would be fine if we know for sure...but seems to be well hidden about this in FCPX documentation. I would expect that if they had full debayer they would make it easy to access and choose. Maybe i am wrong here, but none of those settings in FCP prefs or system prefs makes this easy to figure out. In fact it's so vague that i have no idea if it's 1/4, or 1/2 in FCP prefs....One would think that we should have control over transcoding via 1/4; 1/2 or full. but users are left with no answers. Please do post on it if you find some documentation.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Scott, that would be fine if we know for sure...but seems to be well hidden about this in FCPX documentation. I would expect that if they had full debayer they would make it easy to access and choose. Maybe i am wrong here, but none of those settings in FCP prefs or system prefs makes this easy to figure out. In fact it's so vague that i have no idea if it's 1/4, or 1/2 in FCP prefs....One would think that we should have control over transcoding via 1/4; 1/2 or full. but users are left with no answers. Please do post on it if you find some documentation.

Yup, see the video. The documentation definitely needs updating. This info should be in the Red FCPX plugin manual, but is not.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Guys, i see where all of this relates to PLAYBACK, but render is what seems important here...where do we get ability to modify or even know what our Reder settings are? 1/2 or full? This is where i am more concerned. I see from video there is an assumption about the RED rocket card...but within system prefs--it's vague when only 1/2 debayer is mentioned....so yes, RED or Apple needs to do some updating as this info is just not logical and one cannot detect what settings are by only looking at system or software prefs....the UI is just in need of serious updating as you say. But most important is RENDER quality...what is it and how do we change it?

 

[Scott Crawley]

So far the most recent info I can put my hands on that eludes to this is the Whitepaper Red Workflows with Final Cut X page 7 Export a Master From Final Cut X. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...h_GaRUPPTsn3mRKEQ&sig2=33VQ9WSo9uxl3Kxcm--gJg

It doesn't get into settings details, rather refers you to FCPX help files. I would have pasted the text here, but for some reason it isn't working.

I'm still looking for evidence that output is full debayer. It doesn't appear to be in the Help files. I may have heard it from Steve Martin of Ripple Training in a LAFCPUG meeting video. Checking now... edit: nope, not there, but I still think it was from Martin that I got that info.

I'm still unable to remember where I heard this. It could be days before I have total recall.

 

[David Battistella]

I think it is about this simple.

If you select from the FCP prefs

USE ORIGINAL MEDIA and HIGH QUALITY

You are getting the full debater.

Best way to check.

Pick a shot.

Render the shot in RCX to Prores QT 4444 with full debater.

Open the shot in FCP X

Render the shot with the best settings.

Look at the 2 qt's, you will be able to see the difference if there is one.

David

 

[David Ibbitson]

Johnny,

That tab on the REDcode System Prefs dialog only controls the REDcode QuickTime settings. ie., what you get when you playback with QuickTime player via wrappers for example. This has nothing to do with FCPX.

I've looked around trying to find WHERE one can find settings for full or half debayer, but can't find anything. I only find within REDcode QT settings half debayer--it does not say that those settings are for playback....it only says Half-res decode mode---not exactly sure what that means. But i took it to mean just that--half res-debayer....But please do post if you find actual literature on settings. I would be surprised if FCPX did anything BUT half debayer just by looking at the settings i've seen already.

If you have a Rocket you are always getting a Full debayer (highest quality). Now in FCPX speak, if you have the performance setting set to High Quality, you get a full resolution frame. If you have the performance setting set to Better Performance you get a Quarter resolution frame (scaled via the Rocket).

Does that clear things up?

Thanks,
David

 

[David Battistella]

Johnny,

cket you are always getting a Full debayer (highest quality). Now in FCPX speak, if you have the performance setting set to High Quality, you get a full resolution frame. If you have the performance setting set to Better Performance you get a Quarter resolution frame (scaled via the Rocket).

This is great news!
Thanks for posting!

David

 

[Bob Gundu]

Ok just to be clear, those performance settings within Fcpx are just for playback while editing, regardless if you a rocket installed? However, the resolution of the playback varies depending on the availability of the rocket? And I'm guessing fcpx will always render full debayer with rocket on export? I'll assume this is also the case without rocket too?

Johnny,

That tab on the REDcode System Prefs dialog only controls the REDcode QuickTime settings. ie., what you get when you playback with QuickTime player via wrappers for example. This has nothing to do with FCPX.



If you have a Rocket you are always getting a Full debayer (highest quality). Now in FCPX speak, if you have the performance setting set to High Quality, you get a full resolution frame. If you have the performance setting set to Better Performance you get a Quarter resolution frame (scaled via the Rocket).

Does that clear things up?

Thanks,
David

 

[David Battistella]

Now in FCPX speak, if you have the performance setting set to High Quality, you get a full resolution frame.

Bob,

I think this sentence answers your question. I don't want to answer for David, but it seems clear to me rocket or no rocket.


David

 

[Sidney L. Plaut]

Full debayer and full resolution is that the same? because both terms are used in Davids post...

Also what I love about RedcineX is the ability to use different downscaling algorithms, which have a huge impact on the final image
- but in Resolve and other programs I have yet to find such precise choices... only better,best, fast, fastest... etc...

 

[Johnny Friday]

Johnny,

That tab on the REDcode System Prefs dialog only controls the REDcode QuickTime settings. ie., what you get when you playback with QuickTime player via wrappers for example. This has nothing to do with FCPX.



If you have a Rocket you are always getting a Full debayer (highest quality). Now in FCPX speak, if you have the performance setting set to High Quality, you get a full resolution frame. If you have the performance setting set to Better Performance you get a Quarter resolution frame (scaled via the Rocket).

Does that clear things up?

Thanks,
David

I think the first part is as i expected---meaning in System Prefs: this has only to do with playback
For the second part, in FCP Preferences....IF using a Rocket card you always get full debayer when transcoding out regardless of what setting you choose in FCPX prefs. BUT, when choosing one of those settings, it does have an effect on playback quality within the program. But as i understand what you are saying it does BOTH....it affects playback quality inside of the program AND debayer when transcoding out---is that correct David? If so, then seems like the system prefs seem to overlap with FCP prefs a bit...or am i missing something? since affecting Redcode QT settings is affecting playback yes?

 

[Johnny Friday]

Full debayer and full resolution is that the same? because both terms are used in Davids post...

Also what I love about RedcineX is the ability to use different downscaling algorithms, which have a huge impact on the final image
- but in Resolve and other programs I have yet to find such precise choices... only better,best, fast, fastest... etc...

Problem i have found with RCX when transcoding to Prores is you get a gamma shift that totally screws up all the base color work and time you put into the images within RCX. Going to say Color gives you the WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) look.