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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

FCP Workflow: offline w/Proxy & Color VS ProRes & RedAlert

C

Chris Rupert

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I have a few spots to cut and have been playing with a two different FCP workflows to see which one seems the best for cutting 1 min spots. Both seem to have there benefits & drawbacks so I wanted to post them and see what you guys thought.


WorkFlow 1
(Offline editing in FCP w/Proxy & do color in Color)
1) Copy Red Drive to computer HD & back-up
2) Use Clipfinder to dailies and find hero takes
3) Drag Hero clips (M proxy files from CF) into FCP bin (M-Proxies for my 4K footage)
4) Do my rough edit in FCP (with timeline turned to "Unlimited RT & low quality in order to help playback)
5) Flatten to one video layer & Send To Color
6) Do all my color with in Apple Color accessing all the latitude of the raw R3D data but in 2K
7)Fix Geometry in Color
8) Render in Color & Send back to FCP as ProRes files (not sure if this is right or if I should be sending back to color as original format?)
9) Finish my editing

Benefits of offline proxy workflow I see:
A) No waiting for L&T transcoding time
B) Retain access to full raw color data in color

Drawbacks of offline proxy workflow I see:
a) proxies don't play back smooth in FCP timeline while editing
b) have to fix Geometry in color


WorkFlow 2
(Color in RedAlert then L&T R3D files to ProRes & edit w/ProRes files)
1) Copy Red Drive to computer HD & back-up
2) Use Clipfinder to view dailies and find hero takes
3) Double click files in Clipfinder to open in RedAlert
4) Do 1st round of color in RedAlert & save look for L&T (color only - contrast moves don't get saved in this setting)
5) L&T into FCP to ProRes HQ while applying RedAlert's color setting previously saved
6) Edit piece in FCP
9) Flatten all video layers and send to Color for 2nd round of color tweaks on ProRes files
10) Send back to FCP & Finish project

Benefits of L&T ProRes workflow I see:
A) Editing in FCP is much smoother & easier w/ ProRes files
B) Geometry is right & stays right through out workflow

Drawbacks of L&T ProRes workflow I see:
a) Takes longer to get started editing because have to wait for L&T time
b) Loose access to raw color date & latitude early on in project. (I do heavy color work where my client may want to change the color look of a whole project after I've editing the whole thing - so this is a big one for me).


I'm new to all of this and everything I've learned about working with Red files is from this forum, so big thanks to all of you. Thanks for the feedback.
::Chris
 
Chris, this is great. I'm going through this as i type this too. I'll try your workflows and report back in the next 2 days. I'll post anything else I find too..

Marc
 
Hi Chris,

Yeah, this is the big question! I've certainly been happier using ProRes as it makes the editing phase so peaceful!

Regarding Color, you are only changing the project image size once in project prefs right? Not changing it clip by clip in geometry?

Jim
 
Thanks..
 
If you work with M proxies for 4k and H proxies for 2k and you set the quality to low the playback is smooth in my experience.
 
Chris,

I think you're missing a step in the L & T process. Before you send to Color, ctrl click your sequence, go into media manager, create offline, change setting in batch transfer to "native," re-batch transfer, send new REDCODE timeline to Color, do all color correction with RAW data, send back to FCP as whatever you want. This is all explained in detail in the white paper that came with the RED Final Cut Studio Installer from RED's web site... page 16 as Method #2. It sounds really complicated, but once you do it a couple of times, it's okay. You get to edit in real time with the ProRes codec and color in full resolution.

Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that process allow for raw file color correction in Color?
 
Yes, it does. No. 2 is our favourite workflow.
 
Another option is to edit in ProRES and then export an EDL out of final cut. Bring that and all of your original footage into a SCRATCH suite for final grading.

Color is a great app, but, as an editor for 20+ years, I've come to know my limitations. Sure, I can tweak a shot to make it look better, but there's no way I can even come close to what a professional colorist can do. Especially with a real-time and powerful tool like SCRATCH.

Yes, I'm biased...I own a SCRATCH. However, I spent a lot of time grading in FCP and Color before we got the system and hired a great colorist. The difference is absolutely astounding. And not expensive. A couple of hours grading in SCRATCH will probably cost less than what you spent to feed your crew.

If you've never taken your RED footage into a professional color grading suite, you're really missing something. A lot of DPs and Directors believe that a talented colorist is a big part of what makes film look so good in the first place.

If you're in NYC, I'd be happy to give you a FREE test-drive. Bring in some footage and spend a few minutes with Gary Scarpulla. Then you'll be drinking the kool-aid, too!

IMHO.....
 
Ian,

Thanks for the invitation. I'll take you up on it some day.
 
Ian,

On one of the projects I'm working on I am trying to desaturate all the colors except for the red dress (the only red in the shot) the actor is wearing. Apple color is doing ok but it still not really great. The final piece is about 1 min long - just a guesttimate - how much would it cost to have a colorist render this look in STRATCH?

PS - I live in Dallas but will be in NYC on a job later this month, I will try to schedule a time to come and and check out our set-up.

Thanks
 
BOKEH said:
Chris,

I think you're missing a step in the L & T process. Before you send to Color, ctrl click your sequence, go into media manager, create offline, change setting in batch transfer to "native," re-batch transfer, send new REDCODE timeline to Color, do all color correction with RAW data, send back to FCP as whatever you want. This is all explained in detail in the white paper that came with the RED Final Cut Studio Installer from RED's web site... page 16 as Method #2. It sounds really complicated, but once you do it a couple of times, it's okay. You get to edit in real time with the ProRes codec and color in full resolution.

Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that process allow for raw file color correction in Color?
Click to expand...

Bokeh,
If I'm not mistaken, when you follow the procedure layed out in the Red FCP white pages, you L&T the R3D files, (with "native" selected in the LT prefs) into Red rapped QT files. Which is very similar to editing with proxy files. You do preserve the ability to work color on the raw data but it's not as smooth as editing on a ProRes file. And dragging a poxy file into FCP is much faster than having to L&T the Rapped QT's in.

At least how I understand it.
 
Chris Rupert said:
B]WorkFlow 2
4) Do 1st round of color in RedAlert & save look for L&T (color only - contrast moves don't get saved in this setting)Chris
Click to expand...

Chris. Can you (or anyone else) expand on this a bit? I am having trouble with my clip looking darker than my REDAlert grade in Log and Transfer. In REDrushes the grade preset is fine. Thanks.
 
Sam Roberts said:
Chris. Can you (or anyone else) expand on this a bit? I am having trouble with my clip looking darker than my REDAlert grade in Log and Transfer. In REDrushes the grade preset is fine. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Are you adjusting the exposure in RedAlert? I'm not 100% on this, but I don't think exposure adjustments carry over in the color setting that is used in the L&T into ProRes files.
 
Yes I'm adjusting the exposure- raising the ISO actually in REDAlert- either way I'm not seeing a difference when I use the REDAlert preset in log and transfer. However, if I intentionally really overexpose the clip in REDAlert I do see that in log and transfer. It's weird.
 
I prefer making my 1920x1080 Pro Res files with REDrushes but for some files I am forced to use Log and Transfer, so if some of the adjustments done in REDAlert are not recognized by L&T I'd be interested in knowing what they are.
 
Chris,

Shouldn't be expensive at all. I'd like to know some more about the shot (s) and get you in touch with Gary, our Sr. Colorist.
Please call me Monday at 212-651-2590 and we can figure it out. Happy to help.

Ian
 
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