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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

FCP COLOR 2K DPX Workflow

Thank you for tips! It's working great.

Where I can get LogtoLin LUT? I don't have it under Application support folder for Color. I have google it a bit and I can't find it.

But if I have exported from RedCine gamma at 2.2 (Rec.709) and put Settings 2 tab a Printing density to Video (64 Black - 940 White) the colors looks like they should be. Am I right?

If I export from RedCine in RedLog DPXes, will I have more information in signal?

I do what I can in RedCine (mostly like 2/3 of primary color correction), then I move in Color. you guys do the same? Ok you just render in RedCine and do all the primary color corrections in Color?

P.S.: All my projects (for now :sarcasm: ) are finishing only for TV (PAL and HD for my archive).
 
you'll be fine for tv finish in rec709 colorspace rough graded in Redcine/rush/alert. If you want to squeeze out maximum information or do a film out redlog works better. With the Lut you bake the linear colorspace in only after you are done coloring. The Lut comes with Color under import lut the one with the 6 in the name is the one you want with red log.
 
The LogToLin LUT for some reason is buried in the Color.app package on some systems (it was on mine). You can get to them here:

/Applications/Color.app/Contents/Resources/BaseLUTs

Not to sound presumptuous, but I've seen/had too many discussions with people who think that DPX is some sort of magical file format that gives "better quality" to your RED footage if you xfer to it. If you're transferring REC709 or REDSpace colorspace to DPX files, you're (with certain exceptions) wasting your time, and are better off just xferring to 10-bit uncompressed Quicktime files. You're gaining zero advantage to the DPX format in these cases.

The real magic happens when you xfer in a logarithmic colorspace. I would disagree with Florian by saying that even if your final delivery format is REC709, there's still a big advantage to working with log-encoded DPX files in Color. For one thing, when working in Float space & log files, Color will allow you pull back detail/color from any radical corrections you may have done upstream.

For example, with REC709 footage, if you crush your blacks down or blow out your highlights in the Primary room, if you try to "pull back" that detail in a downstream secondary, you'll find that the data gets clipped, resulting in either flat milky blacks, or flat, gray highlights. With Log files, on the other hand, you can miraculously get back that detail later down the chain.

I've found Color to be really goofy when working with Log files, especially out of REDCINE. Everything seems to work in reverse for some reason, where in order to see log footage correctly, I have to override the DPX header for the clips, and tell it that it's really a Linear file instead of a Log file. Sometimes it seems like Color is doubling the LogToLin conversion, resulting in a super-contrasty picture. I still havent totally figured out what the hell it's doing, because it's not a consistent behavior. I've started to wonder if my GlueTools install is screwing things up, but I still get this odd behavior, even if I set the GlueTools component to import/export in raw format, instead of doing a colorspace conversion.

I hesistate to use REDLog with Color, because as far as I know, nobody has publically distributed a proper 3D LUT for REDLog files in Color, and everything I've come to understand tells me that it's technically incorrect to run REDLog through a LUT that was designed for a standard Cineon log curve.
 
melorama said:
T
The real magic happens when you xfer in a logarithmic colorspace.....For one thing, when working in Float space & log files, Color will allow you pull back detail/color from any radical corrections you may have done upstream.
Click to expand...

That's exactly the point of working with Red Log and a LUT. You have all the information sitting there behind the LUT through primary and secondary correction and you can access it. What your pointing out underlines my argument for DPX RedLog files through a LogtoLin LUT even when finishing in Rec709 and does not speak against it. Maybe we're just misunderstanding each other.

I think someone (probably Graeme) at Red was doing some smart thinking when coming up with the RedLog format. I wish they would provide a specific RedLog to Rec709 or dare I say it RedLog to RedSpace LUT for Color...

I'm by no means an expert on Post or Color correction, but I've been reading up - and experimenting heavily - with these processes and what I describe gives me the best results.
 
melorama said:
If you're transferring REC709 or REDSpace colorspace to DPX files, you're (with certain exceptions) wasting your time, and are better off just xferring to 10-bit uncompressed Quicktime files. You're gaining zero advantage to the DPX format in these cases.
Click to expand...

DPX output from Redcine is actually FASTER then Quicktime output so I disagree with you about the waste of time. The quality difference that people see is between color correcting DPX files and color correcting ProRes files that don't hold up well to anything but your basic color correction and not 10-Bit uncompressed QT which should hold up as well as DPX.
 
I have made some test from stuff I have graded before... this is my opinion about it:

RedCine - DPX export with Rec709 and Aja10bit is just the same for grade! I haven't seen any difference on really big changes in grade. Specially this stuff comes out with hue, sat and luma curves in secondaries...

RedCine - DPX export with Redlog it's for me just a pain in the ass... because I can not found proper LinToLog LUTs... not even in content packages of Color.app! I will deal with this when I will grade some stuff for film print (hope soon :huh: ). For now for the TV output I think I get all out of Rec709 DPXs.

I have another a bit off topic question:
When I render from Color in Aja 10-bit RGB and put it back in FCP, now I need to export it in YUV 4:2:2 specs for print on BetaSP tape. How I do a proper coversion from RGB to YUV via FinalCutPro?
 
Monkey Extract seems to get around the 25 fps problem with Color.
 
HI Florian,

I can understand that you use Color for a while. I don't want to bash this application, but I always problem to make it run properly (my fault probably). In fact I use silicon color last release before they get bought from apple. Consider this as a newbie question from someone who haven't use color for a long time. I really like the tools of color but why we always read bad experience user over it, so do I...Is this apps simply a little bit buggy, and user community just learn how to deal with? Or we're just (the bad experience user community) a bunch of "retarted"...I jump some time in the color's forum on creative cow, and read that even Walter have issue to make it work. We uppon to purchase some expensive SW and don't want to throw my money out of the window...

Many thanks, there is nothing personnal here, just some really doubt...
 
Color works fine for us – as long as we follow the procedures described by Walter Biscardi.

And, by the way, we found out that our RAID was not set up properly for the use of DPX sequences, Color works much better with them now that our technician changed a few settings.
 
I agree nomad! I had a lots of problems with color before big hardware upgrade! Now it works smooth with 2K DPX! And it renders fast.
Config:
MacPro 2x Quad 3.0, 16 GB RAM, Macola RAID5 (2x Infiband, 8x 1TB Sata drives), Aja Kona 3.

Yes it is kind of a stupid program, if you compare it with some software like Shake, that can import/export almost everything... Color also can not reconform/reconnect files properly.

I would love control board like Tanget Devices... but it's expansive. Is there anything that can control some stuff in color? Only ball? or some wheels, like for edit? and how it works with Color?
 
What I'm not getting is the render out to uncompressed HD? Why not stay in 2K DPX so you prepare for film-out?

After that you can encode to what ever you want.

(Also the work around as said before, is to manually change XML or EDL to 25fps before Color Import and then change all settings in Color as well for the clips etc).

...and isn't film 24fps anyway?

The one to talk about this is Evangelos Achillopoulos - search for him as user and PM him. He has a whole workflow including film luts for ARRI laser etc.
 
I agree... I if you now what are you doing, you can do it in a lot of software. But fancy is easier... like always.
 
weirdcrew said:
Because as he said he's preparing for a film workflow = 2K and the smallest files usable for that are DPX.
Click to expand...

OK, sorry, from the 25 fps I derived he's working for TV…
 
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