Favorite/best techniques to blend ADR...?

[Jay Drose]

Just did some looping in the sound studio to replace a few noisy lines captured while shooting on the RED.

I was wondering what your best ways are to blend in the replacement dialogue sounds. As you guys well know...without some editing, the ADR sounds very sound-studio-esque. Bass-y, warm, etc...

Please let me know your best/favorite/easiest techniques. We are editing sound in ProTools HD and Ableton Live.

 

[Jose Alvarez]

If you are using Final Cut Studio, Soundtrack has a fantastic tool for this called EQ Matching. Its both available as a channel inset plugin and Clip Processor. Obviously this only helps match the sound of different clips. You still have to edit the clips to video manually for good lip'sync match. Hope that helps.

 

[David W. Jones]

Use the same microphone for ADR that was used for location sound at the appropriate distance.
Don't forget to record room tone or location ambiance when doing location sound.

All the Best!

 

[Michael Panfeld]

I can't believe that nobody has created a plug-in to do ADR within the NLE. Seems pretty simple and would sell like hotcakes.

 

[S_Miille]

Both editing and mixing ADR is a true art form. Truly, the best option is to turn it over to a Pro. That being said, if you are looking to take on the challenge, here are a few pointers:
First, make sure that you are using the same mic, same preamp, and same wind protection as you used on set. this is huge. Also, make sure you are recording in a quiet, echo/reverb free area. (and no, a bedroom or living room doesn't count; too much reverb)
Second, record your ADR with NO compression. this can be added later, if it's even necessary.
Third, edit in room tone under your new ADR lines. The production has this sound, so should your adr. (As a side note, editing dialog is all about room tone.)
Fourth, you may feel it necessary to ever so slightly pitch shift the ADR lines either up or down so they match the actor on set. be very careful, as this needs to be done very delicately. only slight adjustments make huge differences.
Fifth. go syllable by syllable to make sure that the new lines are in sync. this means editing, and in some cases time compression and expansion to line everything up.
Sixth, don't forget breaths and other voice/mouth sounds.
Seventh, when mixing, listen to differences in mic placement, that might accentuate the chest or nasal sounds, then delicately tweak settings. A bit of boost here, reduction there. It takes careful listening, and a trained ear. there are 'automatic' EQ's out there, and they offer a good starting place.
Eighth, find the right balance between your new lines, and the added room tone that you placed under the new section.
Ninth, carefully mix in reverb to the new ADR lines to match the physical space that the original dialog was recorded in.

As I said before, editing and mixing ADR is a true art form. Really, that's the case of all of post production sound. Although it can be done in a limited fashion in Final Cut, really, working in Pro Tools is a big deal. It's been designed for it. And the experience of a Pro is what makes good sound great.

If you think about it, you just spent 25 to 50 grand on your RED camera. No doubt you shot in 4K. You had thousands of dollars of Arri lights rented, then pained yourself about placement. You thought about story, where to place the talent, when to direct, when not to push so hard. Then when it comes to post....? It kinda seems weird to spend that much and and have such high resolution, and think that much about your film, and then skimp on sound? Its like buying a new Ferrari, then putting $28 Wal-Mart tires on it.

 

[Justin McAleece]

ADR issues.

ADR issues.

great help. I am currently trying to match ADR that was done with compression with a different preamp with a studio VO mic and it is realllly hard to make them match. Is there much else besides EQ and reverb that can help make a studio VO type mic match a shotgun?

 

[Michael Romano]

Its like buying a new Ferrari, then putting $28 Wal-Mart tires on it.

So true! Best bet is to just hire out an audio guy who knows his trade. Always get room tone. Write down what mics you used. Soundtrack, as good as it is, isn't going to usurp a talented operator with a proper room anytime in the near future!

 

[David W. Jones]

It's funny you should mention putting cheap tires on a Ferrari, because I did just that.
Those who really drive their Ferraris know how quickly you go through tires.
So as an experiment I installed an inexpensive set of Fuzion ZRi tires for a road event, and low and behold they performed as well as the expensive brands I was using.

So.... while it would be nice to be able to do your ADR in a million dollar studio full of the best gear, that option is not right for every budget.
If you are in that very situation, trying to make your film on a very limited budget, keep your head up, use the talent and gear that is available to you, and with practice and a little common sense, you will do just fine. Use each project as a learning experience and apply that knowledge to your next project.
Because even inexpensive gear put into talented hands can go a long way.

All the Best!

 

[S_Miille]

It's funny you should mention putting cheap tires on a Ferrari, because I did just that.
Those who really drive their Ferraris know how quickly you go through tires.
So as an experiment I installed an inexpensive set of Fuzion ZRi tires for a road event, and low and behold they performed as well as the expensive brands I was using.

So.... while it would be nice to be able to do your ADR in a million dollar studio full of the best gear, that option is not right for every budget.
If you are in that very situation, trying to make your film on a very limited budget, keep your head up, use the talent and gear that is available to you, and with practice and a little common sense, you will do just fine. Use each project as a learning experience and apply that knowledge to your next project.
Because even inexpensive gear put into talented hands can go a long way.

All the Best!

David, i really do agree with you. Talent will trump gear every time. And, frankly, the items i mentioned before are relatively 'cheap', and depend on talent of the editor and sound mixer more than gear.

People are shooting with a pro camera (RED), the majority of the time with experienced, competent, paid crew. Nothing is thought of spending several thousand dollars on a prime lens, or a crane or dolly rental. Great care is taken to shoot at 4k. Lighting carefully thought over. I think the point i'm making here is that people on this forum on not shooting on a $300 handicam, and editing on their mom's laptop. People who can afford or have saved enough to own or rent RED's are pros. These people are not hacks. It just seems very odd to me, and many others in post production, to budget out all that time and effort shooting, just to come up short by skimping in the home stretch. I know that money doesn't grow on trees, and that budgets are at times extremely small, but i think you see my point.

To put it in perspective, I'm a sound guy. I will sometimes goof around with my Z1U. If i read the manual on the RED One, would you let me be the DP on your next project? I doubt it. I have FCP on my Mac, would you like me to color correct your film? Then why skimp on picture and sound editing?

 

[Marc Wielage]

The three best bits of advice I would give are:

1) hire a professional sound supervisor to help record the ADR and cut it with the production sound. It helps to record the ADR in a neutral environment (very quiet, no reverb, etc.), with the identical mike(s) used in production, and then use a combination of EQ and reverb -- like convolution reverb -- to match the same atmosphere on set. There are studios in many cities all over the world, many that can work with you with your budget to get the job done as affordably as possible.

2) always record wild lines on the set, especially in noisy environments. For example, after the scene is over, take the actors to a quiet part of the set (if there is one), and have them do all the lines over again without cameras rolling. At least this way, their performance will come close to matching the exact read they did minutes earlier on camera, and you can sometimes mix and match lines as required.

3) read the book Dialogue Editing for Motion Pictures: The Invisible Art, written by John Purcell. I learned more from this book than I did from more than 20 years working in video post. Highly recommended.

There's also a fourth suggestion (too late, if your film's already done): always work with an experienced sound mixer during production, to try to get the dialogue right the first time. At the least, a good sound mixer will give you some alternatives -- wireless mikes, boom mikes, wild lines, how to avoid bad locations, etc. -- that will ultimately save you money by helping you avoid ADR whenever possible.

 

[Marti D. Humphrey CAS]

While we all feel software will cure all, for good ADR you need
"The 4 P's:
"Pitch:
You need the Actors to get their pitch correctly when performing in an ADR Stage. When Actors are in front of a crew and the camera they typically have a higher pitched voice because the are the focus of the moment. Get their pitch correct by directing them on the ADR stage

Performance
This is the area where you see if you have a seasoned Pro. If the Actor can recreate his/her performance in a room while looking at a screen and matching the cadence of the original. You would be surprised how may can't repeat their performance.

Placement
This is how and where you place the mic to duplicate the original recording. Was it boomed or is it a lav? How far away was the mic?

Placement
This is the placement of the lines once recorded back into the mix session making sure they are matched for sync on the Dialog session for the Re-Recording Mixer to mix.

If you do not follow the 4P's you will have ADR that sounds or looks wrong.
If you follow the 4 P's you will have a much better chance of the ADR blending into the soundtrack and being invisible to the audience.
Good Luck.

 

[Lawrence S Cota]

In my honest humble, amateurish opinion the three key to making a great film (anything fiction)
is Story, Acting, and Sound. Great picture is a plus.

And it baffles me how some people with spend tens of thousands of dollars for great picture but as some of the pros on the site have mentioned, skimp on the sound.

Now if you don't have money and a RED camera or any other awesome camera falls into your lap, well that's a different story.

But I just want to know why sound doesn't get any love?

BTW I'm not a sound guy I'm an editor but sometimes find my self being the post sound guy because some of the work I get hired for is really really low budget stuff.

Just my two cents.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Heh, I love this thread, because it is so true how many people want to spend almost ZERO on sound when they've dished out thousands and thousands of dollars on the rest of the production.

The first film I edited, the people that did the filming (before I got involved) screwed up the ENTIRE dialog of the movie. It was so bad we ADR'd the entire film and I recreated EVERY single scene in the movie (audio wise) except for two lines because they were really difficult to ADR (and Italian guy screaming in Italian).

Even worse, I ended up doing a voice over because one of the characters had such a bad lisp, but looked awesome, I became his voice.

These are EXCELLENT suggestions. Let me add some more details.

1) Sometimes I try and save original dialog using WaveArts Master Restoration suite. It does a GREAT job cleaning out noise, but does take practice in learning how to use it. This does not always work, but has on MANY occasions.

2) Having the same mic, preamp can make your work SO MUCH easier. We've even recorded straight to a camera just to pull it off because it's so much closer. This is more so with lower end gear where the preamps color. I use some pretty expensive preamps and ADC in my studio so it is VERY clean (Focusrite preamp and Apogee ADC). Also, NO COMPRESSION. NEVER COMPRESSION. If you're clipping, bring it down. You can fix this later.

3) DISTANCE OF MIC TO MOUTH IMPORTANT! Anytime you bring a person closer to a microphone, you get the proximity effect. This enhances the bass that is recorded and makes the voice more intimate.

4) Having room tone is VERY important to be able to lay underneath and mix together. Sometimes if you have long segments of quite around the scene you can use it, but it needs to be a big enough piece so it doesn't have to repeat as this will ALWAYS create something that people will hear (believe me, I tried on a different movie where the sound crew created ambient noise for me with laughter in it, idiots).

5) When I record ADR, I create a loop with two equal spaced sections of area. First is the line from the film that is messed up, then a blank area. Most people do REALLY well with recording the line this way. They hear it, then repeat it, and I create multiple passes and take the best one.

6) I use Altiverb to add back in the reverb I need in a scene. It has AMAZING presets and I can always nail it with a little testing of a few different ones.

7) For EQ matching I have used the Ozone plugin which has this. If the mics/preamps are too different, this creates a LOT of problems. To help this, record the audio in the most DEAD room that you can. You want NO REVERB and NO NOISE (like air movement) as this gives you the most freedom for EQing easily.

The rest of it I just tune by ear with an inline EQ.

Also I can say this that practice doing ADR will make you better at it. I try to avoid it like the plague now. But damn, after redoing the ENTIRE sound for an 1:30 movie, I learned A LOT.

Hope some of this helps!

 

[Erik Franzén]

In animation, ADR is not a choice - it's a "must" :devil:

 

[Michael McVicar]

Heh, I love this thread, because it is so true how many people want to spend almost ZERO on sound when they've dished out thousands and thousands of dollars on the rest of the production.

The first film I edited, the people that did the filming (before I got involved) screwed up the ENTIRE dialog of the movie. It was so bad we ADR'd the entire film and I recreated EVERY single scene in the movie (audio wise) except for two lines because they were really difficult to ADR (and Italian guy screaming in Italian).

Even worse, I ended up doing a voice over because one of the characters had such a bad lisp, but looked awesome, I became his voice.

These are EXCELLENT suggestions. Let me add some more details.

1) Sometimes I try and save original dialog using WaveArts Master Restoration suite. It does a GREAT job cleaning out noise, but does take practice in learning how to use it. This does not always work, but has on MANY occasions.

2) Having the same mic, preamp can make your work SO MUCH easier. We've even recorded straight to a camera just to pull it off because it's so much closer. This is more so with lower end gear where the preamps color. I use some pretty expensive preamps and ADC in my studio so it is VERY clean (Focusrite preamp and Apogee ADC). Also, NO COMPRESSION. NEVER COMPRESSION. If you're clipping, bring it down. You can fix this later.

3) DISTANCE OF MIC TO MOUTH IMPORTANT! Anytime you bring a person closer to a microphone, you get the proximity effect. This enhances the bass that is recorded and makes the voice more intimate.

4) Having room tone is VERY important to be able to lay underneath and mix together. Sometimes if you have long segments of quite around the scene you can use it, but it needs to be a big enough piece so it doesn't have to repeat as this will ALWAYS create something that people will hear (believe me, I tried on a different movie where the sound crew created ambient noise for me with laughter in it, idiots).

5) When I record ADR, I create a loop with two equal spaced sections of area. First is the line from the film that is messed up, then a blank area. Most people do REALLY well with recording the line this way. They hear it, then repeat it, and I create multiple passes and take the best one.

6) I use Altiverb to add back in the reverb I need in a scene. It has AMAZING presets and I can always nail it with a little testing of a few different ones.

7) For EQ matching I have used the Ozone plugin which has this. If the mics/preamps are too different, this creates a LOT of problems. To help this, record the audio in the most DEAD room that you can. You want NO REVERB and NO NOISE (like air movement) as this gives you the most freedom for EQing easily.

The rest of it I just tune by ear with an inline EQ.

Also I can say this that practice doing ADR will make you better at it. I try to avoid it like the plague now. But damn, after redoing the ENTIRE sound for an 1:30 movie, I learned A LOT.

Hope some of this helps!

Great post! I really like #5. Do you show the visuals at the same time? Anything to help the performance.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Great post! I really like #5. Do you show the visuals at the same time? Anything to help the performance.

Yes, I do actually. I create a track called "ADR" that I use to JUST record ADR in at the moment, then move it up where it belongs (usually I create a track for each character if I am ADRing them a lot. I show the clip because it gives them context as well.

Most movies I break into 3 equal parts so they end up being 30 to 45 mins each. I edit all the stubs here then write them out as like 5 bounced stubs

DIALOG
SFX
FOLEY
BACKGROUND
MUSIC

Then I put these together in a 4th session and write out the final stubs.

I do this because sometimes, with 1:30 movie, it can use A LOT of RAM, especially if I throw in some instruments to score with real quick with large libraries.

 

[michael zaletel]

You know what? You guys rock...

I learn so much on this site every week it isn't even funny. No wonder I don't spend any time on facebook!

-michael zaletel

 

[Michael McVicar]

Yes, I do actually. I create a track called "ADR" that I use to JUST record ADR in at the moment, then move it up where it belongs (usually I create a track for each character if I am ADRing them a lot. I show the clip because it gives them context as well.

Most movies I break into 3 equal parts so they end up being 30 to 45 mins each. I edit all the stubs here then write them out as like 5 bounced stubs

DIALOG
SFX
FOLEY
BACKGROUND
MUSIC

Then I put these together in a 4th session and write out the final stubs.

I do this because sometimes, with 1:30 movie, it can use A LOT of RAM, especially if I throw in some instruments to score with real quick with large libraries.

Do you really need 30 to 45 min segments or would 5 to 10 suffice? Just on the ADR. Or is it too much workload? It seems RAM requirements would go down.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Do you really need 30 to 45 min segments or would 5 to 10 suffice? Just on the ADR. Or is it too much workload? It seems RAM requirements would go down.

I just have been more clear!

I break the WHOLE movie down into 3 segments since in these cases I am working on, I am doing ALL the mixing of the movie. Then, I just ADR just after the offending dialog IN the whole film. I just do this for simplicity sake as to not have a lot of different projects sitting around. I already score in Logic Pro, then bounce out and bring into ProTools. That is enough extra project files as it is.

I just find, cutting up the movie once really helps keep things easier. Writing out a bunch of smaller clips just takes more time. Don't get me wrong, I've done this before if I am doing something remotely on a laptop or something, but in studio, I just use the whole film.

Having editing audio in FCP, ProTools, Logic Pro, Digital Performer and SoundTrack Pro (which I will NEVER use again), I found all of them don't handle an hour an a half of 60+ tracks the best. Especially in fight films where I have CRAZY foley.

 

[Michael McVicar]

I just have been more clear!

I break the WHOLE movie down into 3 segments since in these cases I am working on, I am doing ALL the mixing of the movie. Then, I just ADR just after the offending dialog IN the whole film. I just do this for simplicity sake as to not have a lot of different projects sitting around. I already score in Logic Pro, then bounce out and bring into ProTools. That is enough extra project files as it is.

I just find, cutting up the movie once really helps keep things easier. Writing out a bunch of smaller clips just takes more time. Don't get me wrong, I've done this before if I am doing something remotely on a laptop or something, but in studio, I just use the whole film.

Having editing audio in FCP, ProTools, Logic Pro, Digital Performer and SoundTrack Pro (which I will NEVER use again), I found all of them don't handle an hour an a half of 60+ tracks the best. Especially in fight films where I have CRAZY foley.

Thank you. Just asking. I thought it would be simpler the way you described. Hence the workload comment. What didn't you like about SoundTrack Pro?