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Fan Noise A Problem?

Sam Roberts

Sam Roberts

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Would the camera's cooling fan noise be picked up by a Sennheiser 416 mounted on, or very close to, the camera body?
 
Fan in Record

Fan in Record

The fan speed is programmed the camera, so if you are in AUTO mode (the default) it will switch to a low speed mode when in record. In most circumstances that is pretty much inaudible.
 
The difference between RED in single system and any real silent camera and double system is that you don't have or you have usable sound before and after camera runs. In documentary, it is very useful to have those "sound handles".
 
IMHO the sound of red in record mode is still audible. Especially on CU's, where the camera is as close as the boom.

I would like to know if anyone in post has been able to roll the high hiss off with out drying out dialog.
 
If a Sennheiser 416 is in the same room as a Red, you will definitely hear its fans during normal level dialogue. As snaillael suggests, the audio will have to be sorted out in post.

It's unlikely you will hear any fan noise shooting exteriors, provided the mic is NOT attached to the camera.
 
I am somewhat confused by peoples reports of loud fans, every Red I have worked with went dead silent the minute you hit the big red button.

Nick
 
As Stuart says - as long as the camera is in auto mode then you won't get into trouble with the audio guys/gals. I haven't had a single comment about the camera from the audio guys - at least not about the fan noise ;-)
 
I have had some problems with the fan when I did double system on a RED project a few months ago. I never realized that there were fan settings though. Maybe next time I'll kindly ask the DP to turn them down...
 
The fans never shut off. They run at a very low RPM but do not turn off. Depending on the situation, orientation of the mic to the camera, distance of mic to camera, type of mic, level of the desirable audio etc you will come across situations where our audio oriented friends will raise flags.

Most times it is totally fine.
 
The last Red project for which I did location sound, I ran into a high-frequency noise from the camera-mounted LCD display. Turning off the display was not an option. We wound up using both a carefully-placed boom mike for the scene, plus a wireless lavaliere on each actor as a backup, just to give the dialog editors some options.

Ultimately, I think they used more lavs than boom, but they always kept in a little boom to open up the sound and provide a little more ambience. Otherwise, lavs just sound so dead and fake, particularly in situations like this. We also used some sound blankets to help reduce the reflections, which also controlled spurious noise to some degree.

If it isn't fan noise, it's VTR noise (in cameras like the Sony F950 and F23), or it's computer hard drive noise. It's always something.
sigh.gif
 
dr.sound said:
The Red Camera is VERY NOISY! I mixed a film called "The Hole" in 3D that had 2 Red Cameras and with the close ups they were very loud. Don't let anyone tell you different!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1085779/fullcredits
Marti D. Humphrey CAS
www.thedubstage.com
Click to expand...

I think most of us here have experienced various cameras firsthand, and there have been a lot of reports, covering the full range from "very noisy" to "very quiet". I suspect that different individual REDs may have different sound levels, as well as varying levels of noise on set of course. Also, if the set is hot the fans will be faster = louder, and slower/quieter if it is cool.
 
jbeale said:
I think most of us here have experienced various cameras firsthand, and there have been a lot of reports, covering the full range from "very noisy" to "very quiet". I suspect that different individual REDs may have different sound levels, as well as varying levels of noise on set of course. Also, if the set is hot the fans will be faster = louder, and slower/quieter if it is cool.
Click to expand...

What's not "cool" is the sound is the noise coming from the RED.
This is not my first run in with the RED.
I was impressed by the look, but those who designed it did not take the noise into consideration.
The RED looks first class, but I don't rate it that way in the ambient noise level .
 
The fan in the camera can become more noisy over time. I just had mine replaced while it was at RED for the sensor upgrade and it is a lot quieter now.
 
Dr. Sound,
Is it any noisier than an SR3 or a 535? Not in my experience.
I've owned several SR cameras (1's and 3's) I've lived through the evolution of the Arri 35mm line from the BL series (remember optical flat "sound glass" on the front?) through the 535 and the Arricam as an AC. I've always worked closely with my sound department brothers to help make the cameras quieter, from barneys to sound blankets to using studio matteboxes with neoprene donuts when I would have preferred a clip-on.
Never yet, in almost three years of owning my Reds and working alongside my friends in the sound department, have I been asked to take any of those measures from the old days. Of course I also keep my camera on "SILENT", which is my preferred setting. My theory is that if I let the fans go full blast between takes, the innards will be that much cooler at the start of the next take, and the fans will run slower longer.
I also think a Red One is quieter than the tape deck mechanism of Sony's 1/2" tape cameras, especially as those cameras age. I've worked with 1/2" cameras that I swear were noisier than a BL!
I'm a camera guy, not a sound guy, but I will tell you that in my experience, the myriad of other sounds while working on location are much more problematic for the sound department than the barely perceptible single moving part on a Red One.
Cheers,
Harry
ps- not trying to be confrontational, just sharing my perspective...
 
Last edited:
Harry Clark said:
Dr. Sound,
Is it any noisier than an SR3 or a 535? Not in my experience.
I've owned several SR cameras (1's and 3's) I've lived through the evolution of the Arri 35mm line from the BL series (remember optical flat "sound glass" on the front?) through the 535 and the Arricam as an AC. I've always worked closely with my sound department brothers to help make the cameras quieter, from barneys to sound blankets to using studio matteboxes with neoprene donuts when I would have preferred a clip-on.
Never yet, in almost three years of owning my Reds and working alongside my friends in the sound department, have I been asked to take any of those measures from the old days. Of course I also keep my camera on "SILENT", which is my preferred setting. My theory is that if I let the fans go full blast between takes, the innards will be that much cooler at the start of the next take, and the fans will run slower longer.
I also think a Red One is quieter than the tape deck mechanism of Sony's 1/2" tape cameras, especially as those cameras age. I've worked with 1/2" cameras that I swear were noisier than a BL!
I'm a camera guy, not a sound guy, but I will tell you that in my experience, the myriad of other sounds while working on location are much more problematic for the sound department than the barely perceptible single moving part on a Red One.
Cheers,
Harry
ps- not trying to be confrontational, just sharing my perspective...
Click to expand...
Harry,
Let me respond on two key areas. You said " I am a camera guy, not a sound guy...". The difference is what you hear on set is completely different than what you hear on "The Dub Stage". What you feel isn't loud can be very loud, especially with the "Red" creating a very broadband noise on close ups.
It is not like Film cameras where one can notch out offending frequencies, but very broad noise that affects the dialog.
I have found that on the first generation Sony HD cameras they too were very noisy.
I am not trying to be confrontational, I am just stating my opinion about the Production Sound I get from "The Red". To my eye "The Red" looks amazing, especially when I saw the Joe Dante Movie I mixed in 3D called "The Hole".
I went to the screening at Fotokem in the DI room and put on the glasses and was blown away on how it looked. Fortunately after working very hard on the Production Sound it also sounded very good.

In my experience I think as much attention MUST be paid to the ambient noise from the camera as the look of what is being captured on it.
When that is done in my mind it will rise even higher on the list of what a fantastic camera it is.
Thank you for letting me voice my opinion.
Sincerely,
 
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