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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

  • Total voters
    486
It feels like anything Red should make now (given the energy, time and massive amounts of investment they've already put in) must be a game changer for the next 3-4 years. What happens if Canon, Sony, Panasonic, et al. decide to include SRAW HDR for the next iteration of their cameras? All the Scarlet uses who opted out, will be clamoring and complaining about the lack of HDR.
It appears the Epic is targeted for the big budget movies, and the Scarlet s35 for up and coming filmmakers and independents with micro to medium size budgets (100k-20M). An extra $1000 is something that demographic of users can handle.
 
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While I understand that RED wants to make Scarlet the best possible camera, I think there's a time to say "we're done" and release it.

I think it wouldn't be very smart to delay Scarlet 2/3 fixed any further.

You can bet that next year Sony, Panasonic, Canon and others are going to release affordable cameras with large sensors and interchangeable lenses. They probably won't beat Scarlet in any spec, but a real camera always beats an imaginary one.

From the simple fact that RED is even asking this question Scarlet 2/3 fixed seems to be a year away.

All I can say is 60D here I come.
 
Matt Dufilho said:
Lots of speculation on delay times and module possibilities. I'd wait to hear directly from Jim on how much of a delay he would expect and if a module option is even possible.

Otherwise, I say keep the 2/3 the way it is currently moving, and offer HDRx as an option for 2/3 2.0 and S35. Those who want it, sell their old brains and upgrade.
Click to expand...

+1

I think a module is wishful thinking. Even though we're all still guessing at how this works, I think the extra processing power needs to be right next to the sensor. In fact, I'm a little surprised all it needs is an extra board, and not a sensor redesign.

HDRx with no delay is wishful thinking too. Looks like both the firmware and software are still under development, and adding another board means something inside needs to move or the case needs to be redesigned. There may be cooling issues too...

Here's a plan:
  1. Get Scarlet Fixed no HDR and Epic S35 with HDR capability to market asap.
  2. Delay the release of Scarlet S35 to allow addition of HDR at +$1,000. Assuming Jim's estimate of +$1,000 applied to S35 as well as 2/3rds.
  3. Release Scarlet Cinema (with or without HDR - see what folks think after seeing results from the Fixed and Epic).
  4. Release a Scarlet Fixed with HDR. Assess whether to continue making the no HDR option at that point. In any case, there will be a temporary glut of used Scarlet Fixed on the market while a lot of people upgrade. I agree with others that RED shouldn't/won't bother with a trade-in upgrade program for the Fixed. Maybe a third party could be licensed to sell refurbished non-HDR Fixed to RED's specs.
 
Carl Weston said:
LOL...LOL...HA..HA..HA:lol:....Jim?...you mean 3k for 3k jim?...jim that said the scarlet would be out by last summer jim...the jim that said that these cameras would be out by now jim?....Jim hasn't been very reliable on dates lately.:cuss:
Click to expand...

Jim has also made it clear that the dates were subject to change.

Jay
 
Steve Wake said:
+1

I think a module is wishful thinking. Even though we're all still guessing at how this works, I think the extra processing power needs to be right next to the sensor. In fact, I'm a little surprised all it needs is an extra board, and not a sensor redesign.

HDRx™ with no delay is wishful thinking too. Looks like both the firmware and software are still under development, and adding another board means something inside needs to move or the case needs to be redesigned. There may be cooling issues too...

Here's a plan:
  1. Get Scarlet Fixed no HDR and Epic S35 with HDR capability to market asap.
  2. Delay the release of Scarlet S35 to allow addition of HDR at +$1,000. Assuming Jim's estimate of +$1,000 applied to S35 as well as 2/3rds.
  3. Release Scarlet Cinema (with or without HDR - see what folks think after seeing results from the Fixed and Epic).
  4. Release a Scarlet Fixed with HDR. Assess whether to continue making the no HDR option at that point. In any case, there will be a temporary glut of used Scarlet Fixed on the market while a lot of people upgrade. I agree with others that RED shouldn't/won't bother with a trade-in upgrade program for the Fixed. Maybe a third party could be licensed to sell refurbished non-HDR Fixed to RED's specs.
Click to expand...

Ditto.
 
I dont see any issue with offering HDR on the various Scarlet models.
The Scarlet is almost ready we have seen the images from the Fixed. I think the Scarlet will be an amazing camera but competition is changing the goalposts daily.
Issue the regular Scarlet first then the HDR and SSD modules. Offer a great price for both and you will see them fly out the door.

By the way most of the difficult work has been done, Scarlet and Epic are working. Epic has HDR. The bugs have been resolved. Why waste a great opportunity to use this technology,
the groundwork for the HDR boards has been done. I don't think it will be a major wait for the HDR Scarlet version.
Offer them both and let the customer decide.

Just a thought, every day people are loosing their jobs, work is hard to find, everybody is watching the bottom line. Scarlet is aimed at the lower budget shooter.
The more features it offers and the better the price, the better the chances of it cornering this market completely. SSD and HDR will make the Scarlet a force to be reckoned with in this market.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Here's my take on HDRx™ for Scarlet... I don't think it needs to be there on the S35 version. Keep the price point for the S35 Scarlet low and leave the performance features for Epic.

As for 2/3" Scarlet -- YES! HDRx™ most definitely. A fixed-lens Scarlet with HDR ability would become the most sought-after ENG and documentary camera out there.
Click to expand...

Bang on the money there Jeff.
 
I think the optional upgrade program is gonna be the ticket to give people what they want. (ordering it out of th box HDRx ready) might not be an option if making scarlets in bulk is what will keep the price down. Having it like the M-X program, and make it a 1-2 thousand dollar upgrade (his price wasn't definitive, just a estimated number thrown out there) for those who can swing it will be prime, and for those who need that 1000 and feel no need for 16-18 stops of DR, they have what they want too...
 
A fixed-lens Scarlet with HDR ability would become the most sought-after ENG and documentary camera out there. Jeff Kilgroe
Click to expand...

I second this, it would be an amazing feature. 18 stops DR, Auto Focus, Tracking, Red Remote, not to mention an SSD module that can shoot for 2 1/2 + hours of 3K.
More than enough time for most Eng Work, Concerts, Documentary and Drama work. Finally pop it into your 1.8" SSD Reader for offload to you Mac Pro. (Game over)

Just a suggestion, why not do away with the Card Reader and offer a complete HDR and SSD Package:

HDR, SSD Drive + Module and 1.8" Reader

Just my 2 Cents
 
Elan Gunos said:
An extra $1000 is something that demographic of users can handle.
Click to expand...

It's $1000 extra just for the camera, not as TCO difference.

It's still unclear which recording options will support the sufficient data rate for dual stream, CF or SSD.

Also, dual 50 MB/s streams = 6GB for one minute and 360 GB for an hour of footage.
 
No!

13 stops of dynamic range is already on par with film. HDR mode will only be used occasionally. I'd rather spend the $1000 on many other things.

If you can include it in an HDR module, do that.
 
After slogging through the commentary, spread over the last several hours with a good night's sleep in between, my thoughts:

1) the marginal desirability of HDRx™ on Scarlet somewhat depends on how many stops the baseline Scarlet is capable of. If I get 12 stops with current design, the extra would be nice but not essential.

2) Nevertheless, I'd gladly fork out the extra $1K for the extra capability, but I REALLY would hate to see a delay in the Fixed delivery.

3) A module would be nice but, if the cost to build this capability into the camera is $1K, I think a separate module would be a bit more. That's OK, too.

4) For those concerned that there is too small of a difference between Epic and Scarlet, are you serious? As a future multi-Scarlet buyer, I wish it were true but I don't honestly think that is an issue. The great thing is that becoming an expert with the whole Scarlet workflow looks like it will translate nicely to working with Epic - and that's great for RED and all of us.

Jim - just get us a high capability Scarlet Fixed (with or without HDRx™) before year end and I, for one, will be ecstatic!
 
I'm going to be buying a 2/3" fixed Scarlet as soon as possible after it comes out (that is, hopefully I'll be up when the announcement is made, and will get my order in before the servers go down. If I don't make it, I'll be there and waiting when they come back online). Until the day Scarlet comes out, I'll make due with what is available - not that DSLRs are that bad, especially in my market, but Scarlet will blow their image quality out of the water. If this is relatively easily implementable, and will only push us back a month or two, I say there's no question. I would love to see HDRx in Scarlet for only a grand - honestly, I expected a larger number than that, and would have gladly paid it. Put it on in there, and keep working on getting these cameras out on the market.
 
If it extends delivery of Scarlet by even one day, my answer is NO!!!
 
I would like the HDRx for Scarlet 2/3. But keeping the price down is highly important too as well as a prompt delivery. so I would say YES, but there are reasons to say no, is there any chance on having both options for people to choose from?
 
My $0.02:

No, on the 2/3" Scarlet if some HDR mode could be implemented at reduced frame rates and/or reduced REDCodes. Otherwise, yes.
 
As others have said we do not know the DR of scarlet yet, let alone each of our personal acceptable/usable DR range on the camera will be, so lets not make any assumptions before we shoot off our own feet off without realizing it.

Why is everyone so against this at all? why not be for releasing two models HDR and non HDR? if you don't want to wait hey ...you don't have to, if you do want HDR and you can wait great..... the best of both worlds.

I would think a 2/3" HDR scarlet should be made as a way to increase their sales and desirability. I don't think the scarlet S35 will canabolize epic sales like others have said before, but putting HDR into them defiantly will have an effect on epic sales (though I still think all scarlets should have HDR).

I guess the amount of time shipping would be delayed (not when just how many months delay) and if you would build multiple models, HDR and non HDR one's, and which scarlets exactly would get it or could, would be helpful information for us to come to an informed decision.

thanks and have a good one.
 
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