Exposure

[Matt Gerrand]

Hi there I'm new to RED, I'm shooting with Komodo in 2 days and did some tests tonight, I believe I understand the basic traffic light indicators for exposure, but what I'm finding is when none of the traffic lights or bars are showing i.e exposure is good the image on the SDI feed with a Rec 709 LUT applied looks over exposed by about 2 stops.

After having a play with RED file in REDCINE X PRO I'm finding the the komodo is great at recovering highlights but pretty noisy in the shadows, so maybe this is my the traffic lighting exposure tools looks hot, so after re-adjusting exposure by about 2 stops in REDCINE X PRO the image looks pretty good. So wondering if anyone has link to download a Rec 709 LUT - 2 stops and how would I load that into the komodo? That way my SDI feed to camera monitor and client monitor looks good.

Thanks

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Hi there I'm new to RED, I'm shooting with Komodo in 2 days and did some tests tonight, I believe I understand the basic traffic light indicators for exposure, but what I'm finding is when none of the traffic lights or bars are showing i.e exposure is good the image on the SDI feed with a Rec 709 LUT applied looks over exposed by about 2 stops.

After having a play with RED file in REDCINE X PRO I'm finding the the komodo is great at recovering highlights but pretty noisy in the shadows, so maybe this is my the traffic lighting exposure tools looks hot, so after re-adjusting exposure by about 2 stops in REDCINE X PRO the image looks pretty good. So wondering if anyone has link to download a Rec 709 LUT - 2 stops and how would I load that into the komodo? That way my SDI feed to camera monitor and client monitor looks good.

Thanks

Traffic lights relate to the RAW capture so any ISO set outside the base (640/800) is not accurate. I really wish that Red added the RAW and Gioscope feature from the DSMC2 line, I don't know why it's not already in there. Generally, stick with ISO800, it's close to what the traffic lights see. Want less noise, go to around 500. Focus on exposure based on aperture and NDs first, then ISO. Keeping shutter at 180 and ISO around 800. Gives the best result with DR and Noise is really not an issue once supersampled down to delivery resolution.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

Christian's answer is correct, but doesn't aim at the heart of your question. So I'll try.

If you hate noise in the shadows (as I do), you'll want to expose to the right (ETTR). When RED captures RAW data, hot photons hitting the sensor will give you a robust digital negative. However, the ISO you set on the camera governs how the RAW image appears in your monitor(s). If you crank down the ISO from 800 to 200, you'll get nice dark monitor images. In post, you can grade with an ISO setting of your choice--the RAW data remains the same. The ISO you choose in post is just going to move your digital negative up or down by the number of stops you are away from 800. If you prefer a base grade that starts with lots of shadow details, start with a high ISO and crush down.

However, if you encode to ProRes, ISO and Color temperature and Tint are baked in. In which case you need a more complex answer. But for now, use an appropriate ISO as a brightness control for you monitors and a possibly different ISO as the starting point for you base grade in post.

 

[Phil Holland]

Don't know what's going on with James there, but the Stop Lights and Raw Meters to indeed work.

IPP2 does make some things trickier like Video Check, but RAW Meters and I strongly recommend GIOSCOPE for tricky situations specifically because you can literally see the roll-off to clipped highlight. Likely the most useful exposure tool out there and one I hope comes to Komodo in a future firmware update.

From my FOG manual specifically in regards to the Goal Posts or Meters:

RAW Noise Level Bar - The “Left Goal Post” indicates the relative amount of RAW pixels that are noise in frame. If you see the bar fill with red about 1/4 of the way that means about 1/4 of your frame is noise. Anything that lands here is underexposed and will be nothing but noise with no detail information if lifted up in post. However, this is fine if you desire have “pure crushed black” in frame.

RAW Clip Level Bar - The “Right Goal Post” indicates the relative amount of pixels that are potentially clipping outside of the RAW capture in frame. Meaning there will be no detail found in the over exposed highlights as they are outside of the capturable dynamic range of the sensor. If you’re going for a “blown out” over exposed highlight this is fine. If you are seeing about 1/4 of the bar filled with red you have approximately 1/8 of your frame potentially clipping.

 

[Tommaso Alvisi]

THE TRAFFIC LIGHTS ON RED MEANS SHIT ALL. DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THOSE LIGHTS. You can still clip even if those lights are not lit up. I shot a sunset, with no lights lit up, and in post the sun was clipped. fuck red.

Same thing happened to me multiple times, especially for smaller areas like specular highlights or point of lights like the sun or light bulbs, so I tend to agree, except the last part he he

 

[Christoffer Glans]

THE TRAFFIC LIGHTS ON RED MEANS SHIT ALL. DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THOSE LIGHTS. You can still clip even if those lights are not lit up. I shot a sunset, with no lights lit up, and in post the sun was clipped. fuck red.

That's because traffic lights indicate RAW exposure. Why are you blaming the camera or Red for something you haven't read up on before shooting?

 

[Christoffer Glans]

IPP2 does make some things trickier like Video Check, but RAW Meters and I strongly recommend GIOSCOPE for tricky situations specifically because you can literally see the roll-off to clipped highlight. Likely the most useful exposure tool out there and one I hope comes to Komodo in a future firmware update.

So why don't we have either RAW check or Gioscope on Komodo? I don't understand why that's not in there (or can't I find it?). Just as you say, it's a great tool for checking exposure and I use it all the time on DSMC2, but I don't understand why it's not available on Komodo.

 

[James Sielaff]

Same thing happened to me multiple times, especially for smaller areas like specular highlights or point of lights like the sun or light bulbs, so I tend to agree, except the last part he he

Haha! Thanks for having a good sense of humour, despite myself! And yes, agreed!


I think anyone who doubts this, can just go try it for themselves, and shoot with candles or low hanging sunsets. If the exposure is right on the edge, a smaller object in the frame can clip without triggering the "stop lights". The irony of the stop lights, is that they do not notify you when an actual traffic light is partially clipping or clipped.

 

[Phil Holland]

So why don't we have either RAW check or Gioscope on Komodo? I don't understand why that's not in there (or can't I find it?). Just as you say, it's a great tool for checking exposure and I use it all the time on DSMC2, but I don't understand why it's not available on Komodo.

It was on my very, very, very first list of Feature Requests to have GIOSCOPE in there. Hoping they put it in there. Komodo's meters also work. Meters are working fine, I've suggested a different orientation on the output SDI feed to make them longer to have them be a bit more sensitive.

I'll double check, but Exposure Check on Komodo does seem to accurately report what's clipping and all that.

Haven't had any issues with exposing or anything.