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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Exposure differences between RAW - RED SPACE

jimhare

jimhare

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A couple of weeks in now. Trying to really understand exposing for RED.
One step forward, two back!

So,because of the color space differences, I've noticed each color space clips at a different exposure level. Redspace first, then 709, then RAW. Obvious why when you see the gamma levels of each onscreen, but how can you use this to your advantage?

If I'm in Redspace and the stoplights show clipping, I haven't yet clipped in RAW. So should I go to a higher stop or take a different approach in RedCine/Alert?

My goal is to get as much light to the sensor as possible to minimize noise, so I never want to go to a higher stop unless I need to.

Or am I missing the obvious big picture here?

Sorry if this is simplistic, I'm just learning and my head is going to explode! :wacko:

Cheers,

Jim
 
If you want to make sure, switch to RAW and check histogram or "traffic-lights" to avoid clipping.
In the next firmware we should get indepent display LUT and exposure indication.
 
jimhare said:
A couple of weeks in now. Trying to really understand exposing for RED.

One step forward, two back...

...Sorry if this is simplistic, I'm just learning and my head is going to explode! :wacko:

Cheers,

Jim
Click to expand...

I hear ya' and am right there with you bro'. Between reading the Operations Manual, watching fxphd, listening to Red Centre podcasts, wasting hours on Reduser, while trying to decipher what in the world I'm doing, I'm slowly going nuts. Here's to those with exploding heads.
 
Noise just appears where underexposed data is encountered. This means that if you light evenly and then you add contrast you wont have any issues. but if you set different zones of your image in a lower zone than III then you will see noisy areas whereas you have set this exposure zone. The most I have been able to get is zone VII without any real loss of detail. Past that point and you start clipping. If you come to any other conclusions let me know, also interested in seeing how can these issues improve in further builds.
 
REDspace and RAW

REDspace and RAW

So,because of the color space differences, I've noticed each color space clips at a different exposure level. Redspace first, then 709, then RAW. Obvious why when you see the gamma levels of each onscreen, but how can you use this to your advantage?
Click to expand...

REDspace gives you some highlight protection. But if you want to see what the sensor is seeing, assign VIEW RAW to one of your USER keys.

If you press that key the camera will monitor and meter at the native ISO of 320. Press it again and it will go back to metering in REDspace.

In Build 17, we added a RAW exposure meter, available at all times irrespective of VIEW RAW / RED709 or REDspace selection.
 
For those who don't shoot using Red Space, will we be able to flip from Raw view back to REC709 w/o having to go to the view menu?

The RAW exposure metering will be a great addition.
 
RAW to REC 709

RAW to REC 709

For those who don't shoot using Red Space, will we be able to flip from Raw view back to REC709 w/o having to go to the view menu?
Click to expand...

Yes that's in Build 17 also.
 
Stu, how bout a quick way for focus edge highlighting?

Stu, how bout a quick way for focus edge highlighting?

It would also be very helpful to be able to set one of the user buttons to false color and another to focus edge assist. Right now you can only do either or, as they're both in the same menu. Or how about toggle OFF / False color / Edge Assist
 
Thanks all.

Regarding lighting, I shoot a lot of live concerts where I don't have control over every situation, certainly not able to light for every angle.

This means all I can do is expose best I can.

Did some tests last night at a show at the Sydney Opera house and the results are quite good. I kept exposure slightly under clipping in REDSPACE and it was pretty easy to create a noise-free image.

Cheers,

Jim
 
Mark Phelan said:
I hear ya' and am right there with you bro'. Between reading the Operations Manual, watching fxphd, listening to Red Centre podcasts, wasting hours on Reduser, while trying to decipher what in the world I'm doing, I'm slowly going nuts. Here's to those with exploding heads.
Click to expand...

Good on ya Mark! We'll get there and what ride! :w00t:

Jim
 
Stuart English said:
REDspace gives you some highlight protection. But if you want to see what the sensor is seeing, assign VIEW RAW to one of your USER keys.

If you press that key the camera will monitor and meter at the native ISO of 320. Press it again and it will go back to metering in REDspace.

In Build 17, we added a RAW exposure meter, available at all times irrespective of VIEW RAW / RED709 or REDspace selection.
Click to expand...

Thanks Stuart. Does this mean that if I'm shooting REDspace I can use the RAW clipping level, essentially ignoring the REDspace stoplights?

This is where I'm losing the plot, trying to understand how I can use this to my advantage in getting as much light to the lens as possible without losing detail.

Thanks!

Jim
 
This is a bit OT, but I would love to see this as well.

bobbystone said:
It would also be very helpful to be able to set one of the user buttons to false color and another to focus edge assist. Right now you can only do either or, as they're both in the same menu. Or how about toggle OFF / False color / Edge Assist
Click to expand...
 
Exposing

Exposing

jimhare said:
Thanks Stuart. Does this mean that if I'm shooting REDspace I can use the RAW clipping level, essentially ignoring the REDspace stoplights?
Click to expand...

Well the traffic lights and histogram are showing you what's happening in RGB space, so you are NOT really at that exposure at the sensor. The RAW VIEW will show you that, as will the new RAW meter - which is located between the Traffic Lights and the Histogram.

If you want to minimize the noise floor then expose as far to the right in RAW monitoring mode as you can, but frankly I wouldn't do that as my SOP.

I'd accept that noise in the shadows is low and usually acceptable, and be more worried about clipping highlights.
 
I have a question:

When I use RAW View ,and than I record ,when I load that shot in REDCINE /REDAlert! The image is not like the RAW image that i saw in the Monitor..(because i have to apply one Gamma /Color Space LUT)...
Is this correct?

So , there is any way to have the image that i saw in the Monitor (RAW View) as my starting point for post?

Thanks

G
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
I have a question:

When I use RAW View ,and than I record ,when I load that shot in REDCINE /REDAlert! The image is not like the RAW image that i saw in the Monitor..(because i have to apply one Gamma /Color Space LUT)...
Is this correct?

So , there is any way to have the image that i saw in the Monitor (RAW View) as my starting point for post?

Thanks

G
Click to expand...

In Redcine your clip will be viewable as RAW, REC709, or REDspace (or a number of other gamma values). I think your gamma defaults to REDspace in the most recent build, iirc.
 
Choosing linear light would probably be the closest to seeing RAW. Understanding linear light is the key to understanding digital cameras IMHO.
 
Raw view out of the camera has a gamma curve applied.
 
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