Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Explosion Element Shoot with RED

G

Gary Beach

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hi. This will be my first shoot with a RED and I have some questions regarding things I've read and what I've been told. I am shooting explosion elements mostly at 50fps and a few at higher frame rates. I know I should test, and would like to, but the film is somewhere between and lo-budget and no-budget and I'm cramming 2 days work into one already.

1) I have been told that for these frame rates, the RED will be cropping to the center 2000 pixels. Therefore, is it true that I need to consider the FoV of my 35mm lens as if it were 16mm, or is there another lens cooefficent I should be considering to find approximate matching lens sizes?

2) This question is similar. Which resolutions are available at which frame rates and what, if any, are the drawbacks at 3K and 2K compared to full wonderful 4k? Is there anything I should be aware of.

3) The explosions will probably be a mixture of gasoline and diesel as well as whatever this pyrotechnician's little secret chemical concoction might be to make them more impressive. I would normally shoot these kind of explosions at a basic stop of 5/6 1/2 to 8 rated at ASA 500 and 24fps. Obviously I want my blacks black for LumaKeying, but I want some subtle edges, but most of all, I don't want the hot part of the explosion to clip in the whites. Any suggestions? ( yes, I could shoot it on film :shifty: if the production had budgeted money better)

Any tips would be much welcomed and appreciated.
 
1. yes you need to calc it like 16 mm
2. It is deppend on what is your storage : CF cards , or RedDrive ,
If CF you can go up to 100 FPS on 2k , if RedDrive 120 FPS .

Also better to use CF cars ,on RedDrive you can get some framedropped because of shake check it : http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24388

3. Why ISO 500 ?
 
we used it for fire type effects here at tippett studios, for a miniature shoot with smoke etc. worked great.
get an iphone, and get iseek4K app it will give u appropriate lens depending on 2-3-4k
 
Can you talk the EFX guy into letting you test shoot 1 or 2 small test explosions.

I've seen a couple of fireballs shot with the Red and was not too pleased. The clipping really screamed at me, especially as the surrounding area was "dusk."
 
I shot an explosion and from what i remember it was shot at 60fps in 3K (build15), then it was accelerated in post to give some better match with the rest.
I slightly underexposed it, so in case of a blast I have had preserved the details.
3K cuts very well with 4k, assuming you match the frames size from within the set.
The sequence here was not a final; it was done quickly on the laptop so forgive for imperfections:)
http://www.yayofilms.com/clients/two/macedonia_albert_2.mov
Cheers
 
I shot some gasoline and blackpowder explosions at 120fps 2K 2:1. We rotated the camera vertically so we used more of the sensor to cover the explosion. This was for compositing so the vertical framing was not an issue. The results looked great, and 120fps is a nice frame rate for capturing enough of the explosion.
 
Vigen Vartanov said:
1. yes you need to calc it like 16 mm
2. It is deppend on what is your storage : CF cards , or RedDrive ,
If CF you can go up to 100 FPS on 2k , if RedDrive 120 FPS .
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm using CF cards. 100 it is.


Vigen Vartanov said:
3. Why ISO 500 ?
Click to expand...
This is h0w I've always rated expl0si0ns f0r exp0sing 0n film and get th0se big juicy 0range fireballs, and keeps them sharp. This all0ws me t0 still have s0me st0p when sh00ting 150fps and n0t have t0 t0 be wide 0pen.
 
teamgoo said:
I shot some gasoline and blackpowder explosions at 120fps 2K 2:1. We rotated the camera vertically so we used more of the sensor to cover the explosion. This was for compositing so the vertical framing was not an issue. The results looked great, and 120fps is a nice frame rate for capturing enough of the explosion.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I expect to rotate the camera as per the shot requirements. How well did the elements comp? What I mean is and what I am concerned about from past experience with digitally recorded elements is, did you white's blow out, or were the brightest parts of the fireball a bit thin? How did the black edges key? Also what was the final resolution of the composite you were putting it into?
 
Vigen Vartanov said:
Gary , what will be camera protection system ? did you get some special box ?
Click to expand...

These are propane or benzin explosions with air mortars firing rubber glass and at 1:2 or 1:4 scale. I've ordered opticals flats for the camera as well as plexi to go around the camera. The dp shot the original plates for this riveting explosion sequence on rather long (and did I say dull) lenses so we're quite safe.
 
MiguelOrtega said:
we used it for fire type effects here at tippett studios, for a miniature shoot with smoke etc. worked great.
get an iphone, and get iseek4K app it will give u appropriate lens depending on 2-3-4k
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. I'm still a faithful user of pCam/pCine for my lens conversions.. And if you're at tippett's give Blair my regards.(I'm assuming he's still there?)
 
jimarri said:
Can you talk the EFX guy into letting you test shoot 1 or 2 small test explosions.

I've seen a couple of fireballs shot with the Red and was not too pleased. The clipping really screamed at me, especially as the surrounding area was "dusk."
Click to expand...

We are shooting tests tomorrow, on HD, but more to gauge the amount of gas I want and pressure on the air mortars. As these are elements for VFX comps, we will either be shooting in the dead of night against black sky for the gasoline one and on stages with the propane, so I'm guaranteed black. I would also have concerns about shooting this all in-camera in a daylight senario I'll have him pre-rig 2 explosions for exposure tests. Thanks, good idea.
 
albert rudnicki said:
I shot an explosion and from what i remember it was shot at 60fps in 3K (build15), then it was accelerated in post to give some better match with the rest.
I slightly underexposed it, so in case of a blast I have had preserved the details.
3K cuts very well with 4k, assuming you match the frames size from within the set.
The sequence here was not a final; it was done quickly on the laptop so forgive for imperfections:)
http://www.yayofilms.com/clients/two/macedonia_albert_2.mov
Cheers
Click to expand...

Thank you! Slightly underexpose was my feeling, but it was good to hear that. My final result will be in a 2K film comp, so 3k will more than suffice. I always work with a video mixer on set and will be comping the result in Shake on-set before we break the setup.
 
I have not seen the final comps yet, the comps should be done at 2k or 1080p. We shot at f16 so as not to blow out the highlights and with the raw data there is enough latitude to pull more out in the flames. I will post some results if I can get them from the vfx house.
 
albert rudnicki said:
I shot an explosion and from what i remember it was shot at 60fps in 3K (build15), then it was accelerated in post to give some better match with the rest.
I slightly underexposed it, so in case of a blast I have had preserved the details.
3K cuts very well with 4k, assuming you match the frames size from within the set.
The sequence here was not a final; it was done quickly on the laptop so forgive for imperfections:)
http://www.yayofilms.com/clients/two/macedonia_albert_2.mov
Cheers
Click to expand...

Wow loved the film, whos the music buy i loved it?
 
I would watch for the clipping, but also keep in mind that the Red is slightly more sensitive to IR than a 3-chip camera. You may want to include an IR cut filter on the actual shoot day.
Cheers,
Harry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top