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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Expected DOF on Scarlet 2/3" & Other Questions

The Mini primes are going to be a very attractive option. The Red Prime Pros for the s35mm bodies are very heavy from what I've read of their specs and may require a lot of counterbalance/modules to make up for that - increasing the weight yet again.

Fast and mobile I like. Also the price range of around $4K may be high for some, but it's still OK for a personal purchase whereas with the RPPs - they are "only" 20K but that amount starts to mean you will have to rent them out to help pay for them and that's a lot of hassle.

It would be great if the Minis would be released at the same time as the 2/3" body! Maybe the long ASIC development will ensure that :).
 
David Doko said:
The Mini primes are going to be a very attractive option. The Red Prime Pros for the s35mm bodies are very heavy from what I've read of their specs
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Yeah, for run 'n gun stuff the 2/3" setup with the mini primes will probably be hard to beat. A six-pound lens isn't very inviting to me. On large productions with a lot of helping hands it would be fine, but the ENG-ish stuff I shoot gets really taxing when the weight of the camera/lens passes a certain point.

It will be interesting to see how the 2/3" Scarlet performs. Soon...can't be too long now...
 
Russ Blaise said:
So maybe a still camera lens with an f-stop of 2.0, might have a different effect in relations to DOF, than a movie camera lens with an T-stop of 2.0???
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A T-stop is just the f-stop mark moved over to compensate for light lost in transmission through the lens, so it is more accurate exposure-wise -- in other words, a bunch of lenses all set to T/2.0 should give you the same exposure, but a bunch of lenses set to f/2.0 will vary slightly from lens to lens in terms of the actual amount of light transmitted.

So generally the T-stop is a slightly "slower" number than the f-stop for the same lens because of the compensation for light loss -- an f/1.8 lens may actually only be a T/2.0 lens in terms of exposure. However, it's still an f/1.8 in terms of depth of field.

So a still lens set to f/2.0 will actually be slightly more stopped down than a cine lens set to T/2.0 since that means it's actually set to around f/1.8 or whatever the actual f-stop is. However, there is usually such a small difference between the lens' f-stop and T-stop marks that it's not enough to worry about in terms of depth of field. No one can actually see the difference in depth of field between shots that are only 1/3 of an f-stop apart.
 
jchema said:
Of what quality do you guys think the fixed 8x lens will be? In your honest opinions...for the money do you feel its worth going with the 8x fixed or buying a set of primes. I'm really only looking to spend about $5k total on the Scarlet, Redrock Micro shoulder mount, and other accessories.... Obviously a set of primes is out of my budget if its gonna cost $4k extra. Down the road, possibly buying a new brain may be an option for me and then i could get primes but as of right now the fixed zoom model is looking awefully tempting.
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welcome to the forums. To be honest with you, I think the only possible option for you on the budget you have is the fixed lens scarlet. Between the brain lenses and other accessories needed to just boot the scarlet you are looking at more than 5k. But here is the good news... from what we know the fixed lens scarlet will still be an amazing deal. Seeing as your knowledge base right now is kind of limited I think you should save yourself the hassle and learn on the fixed lens and get a feel for the exposure on the fixed lens and then later on like you said upgrade up to a new brain and then get that nikon mount. Whats nice about getting the fixed lens now is that then you can get the kit. And assuming it isn't built right into the camera and only works exclusively with the fixed lens you could use that kit accessory on your next brain saving you some money on accessories.
 
Robert Jackson said:
A six-pound lens isn't very inviting to me. On large productions with a lot of helping hands it would be fine, but the ENG-ish stuff I shoot gets really taxing when the weight of the camera/lens passes a certain point.
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I'd be surprised if the lens on the fixed-lens Scarlet weighed six pounds. The whole camera was originally supposed to weigh about 4.5 pounds.
 
jchema said:
Of what quality do you guys think the fixed 8x lens will be? In your honest opinions...for the money do you feel its worth going with the 8x fixed or buying a set of primes. I'm really only looking to spend about $5k total on the Scarlet, Redrock Micro shoulder mount, and other accessories.... Obviously a set of primes is out of my budget if its gonna cost $4k extra. Down the road, possibly buying a new brain may be an option for me and then i could get primes but as of right now the fixed zoom model is looking awefully tempting.
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jchema...I am in the exact same boat as you my friend. I have actually spent all day today looking up prices of shoulder mounts, follow focuses, matte boxes, which is not including things like a tripod or a carrying case which are pretty essential if you ask me. I think that the people in our boat (5Kish spending budget) are going to have to go with the best bang for the buck cases in terms of products, of which I feel the Fixed Scarlet falls under.

I have been saving for a little over a year and a half (when Scarlet was announced originally) and just breached the 4K mark...hopefully I will have 5K or so to throw down by the time Red puts the Scarlet up for deposits.

=] By the way, welcome to the boards man. Its a wonderful place of learning, if you have the patience to read everything ;)
 
Peter Mosiman said:
jchema...I am in the exact same boat as you my friend. I have actually spent all day today looking up prices of shoulder mounts, follow focuses, matte boxes, which is not including things like a tripod or a carrying case which are pretty essential if you ask me. I think that the people in our boat (5Kish spending budget) are going to have to go with the best bang for the buck cases in terms of products, of which I feel the Fixed Scarlet falls under.

I have been saving for a little over a year and a half (when Scarlet was announced originally) and just breached the 4K mark...hopefully I will have 5K or so to throw down by the time Red puts the Scarlet up for deposits.

=] By the way, welcome to the boards man. Its a wonderful place of learning, if you have the patience to read everything ;)
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Yeah man I know exactly how you feel. It is truly remarkable to me that RED would release a camera with a price point that is this much lower than the ONE. My friend spent about $100k on his ONE and accesories when all was said and done! Like yourself, I'm just trying to get the best bang for the buck like you said. I really think that buying the Scarlett fixed version with a shoulder mount and pull focus is really the best bargain. I've priced out a Panasonic HVX200 and it'll cost me about the same price when all said and done. I've also looked into some DSLR's that shoot video (mainly because of the shallow DOF they produce) but I don't know if I could ever shoot on a DSLR. They were never meant to shoot video, therefore they are a bit ackward to hold and the lack of audio inputs is another huge negative in my opinion. I just wish RED would give us a set release date! These forms are awesome though! I've learned a ton and im truly impressed with the amount of competent people on here that have experience in the industry! :thumbup:
 
Shallow DoF isn't everything. Useful, especially when you're in less than ideal locations to hide things but I bet when you get out with your [insert camera name here] DoF will be one of the last of your worries.
Scarlet will be a nice camera, but there's really no such thing as a good or bad camera, only an "appropriate camera for the situation."
Ask yourself what situations you'll likely be in most often and then choose the camera which works for that.
my 2 cents.
 
What about a 35mm adapter on a 2/3 sensor? My limitted googling on this seems to imply that you would lose some light and have to perhaps crop (but a 3k for a 2k finish that might not be too bad)... Any other drawbacks to this method with the cheaper, ready to go fixed lens model (I expect if I used still lenses, etc. They would all have to be manual and have some "breathing" if adjusted)? I come from the fixed lens video world, so I defer to anyone else's knowledge on this...
 
Daniel Mason said:
What about a 35mm adapter on a 2/3 sensor? My limitted googling on this seems to imply that you would lose some light and have to perhaps crop (but a 3k for a 2k finish that might not be too bad)... Any other drawbacks to this method with the cheaper, ready to go fixed lens model (I expect if I used still lenses, etc. They would all have to be manual and have some "breathing" if adjusted)? I come from the fixed lens video world, so I defer to anyone else's knowledge on this...
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Could work. I'd be concerned that at such a high resolution, you may be able to see the grains on the ground glass though...

I don't personally think its worth the effort... 2/3" has enough DOF for me (and many films have been shot on 2/3" cameras and 16mm film (which is not that much bigger), so it's not like you can't get a cinematic image on it.)
 
Personally I'm beginning to get a little annoyed by all the 5d/7d videos with litterally nothing in focus. Sometimes it's like watching a series of different patterns, with nothing to let your eyes rest on. It's also like they isolate the subject in way you might as well do it Dogville-style since there's no background anyway.

As it has been discussed 100 of times in here before, composing your picture and perhaps color correcting makes a beautiful picture too. And now let's not forget that Avatar was shot on a 2/3" camera. And as it has been discussed earlier as well, if you go with the 35mm adaptor - and a good one, it's almost the same price as the S35 Scarlet body. And then again you can always go with the "Go back and zoom in" tecnique.
 
I am in Taiwan now filming with a 1/3 chip cam and honestly, if you frame your shots well, use interesting backgrounds and use small chip dof tricks like telephoto, you can get very cinematic footage. Ultra shallow dof looks great in some instances, but in my case, the environment of Taipei is so interesting, that i like the audience to see what is going on in the background. Shallow dof is good when your background in dull as hell, otherwise a little visual interest in the background can go a long way.
 
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