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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Expectations...

I also in love with the idea of building up all of our Red accessories with the Scarlet so when we can finally afford to upgrade to Epic, almost all of our gear can play with both!
 
I think Red might mix the different "expectations" together into a mixture of a very unrealistic product. I'm sure people won't be disapointed with the final results.
 
We all know the "old" specs which are as current as we know. If everyone expects what has already been announced, then you cannot be disappointed. RED has always delivered beyond what anyone wanted / thought. REDuser can be a reality distortion field at times. Will Scarlet blow away the competition? Yes. Which competition? I guess we'll have to wait to find out on Nov 3rd. Has Jim or RED ever let us down? No. Do we all have high expecting? Yes - well none of us as high as what Jim has. RED & Jim have said that they have our back.

If we look at what red have available:

RED One - 4K - $25,000
RED EPIC - 5K - $29,000 (brain price at Stage 4, I think)

Both of these blow away the competition.

So Scarlet brain = Nov 3rd

If you do the math, then I am sure Scarlet will be have specs that our weight the competition and priced aggressively and competitively.

Just my take...

Thanks for the reality check Jim.

:-)
 
Jannard said:
I have read a lot of the posts regarding Scarlet. There are so many unrealistic expectations that it takes the wind out of our sails.

Some people apparently have no idea what realistic is.

"Why not 28K at 1000fps RAW in a raisin box for $800?"

We are so happy to have a complete competitive advantage. We consider our customers as one of us. What we have always done is beat the competition in price/performance. But the misguided expectations for Scarlet are killing me.

You should expect a lot from us. But within reason. Really.

Measure us against our competitors... not your fantasies.

Nothing competes with EPIC. Nothing will compete with Scarlet... except your wildest dreams.

Get real. Get real before November 3rd. Or you will be unnecessarily disappointed. Which is totally unnecessary.

Jim
Click to expand...

A wise thread to start Jim.............'Get Real' really needed to be said, given the wild flights of fancy that have been popping up all over the forum (people are already at it again though, in this very thread!).
 
I'm excited about this announcement. As an early RED adopter, I remember when there was very little support for RED and good workflows were hard to find. Everything changed over the next couple years and now there is native RED support everywhere and there are many workflow options. Not only is the RED ONE a great camera, but they built a whole system to make it a great system. The Epics fit great into this system, and the more I work with mine the more I realize how big a step forward it is, and how I can use it ways I could never have used my RED ONE. But it's still a RED, and still works with the system that RED and the RED community has built. I'm very excited to see another unique camera from RED coming into the mix and opening up new possibilities and opening them up to a whole new market! RAW for everyone!
 
I know that this is a little tangential, but never the less related.


Can anyone explain the “obsession” with 120 fps?


When I think of high(ish) frame rate I think of very expensive high end specialist equipment that has to be specially rented for basically 2nd unit kinds of “technical” sequences. [Not just going to 400 fps].

A 3k+ shooter that does 120 fps seems (for general applications) like a bit of an oxymoron? I don’t get it… and for some reason that is something a lot of people call for (I know in the dim and distant past that was an enthusiastic spec put out there by RED a LONG TIME AGO.)

I’m trying to figure out if you have a 3k+(ish) shooter how often will one actually need to shoot 120fps compared to regular shooting?

Feel free to educate me on this as I don’t have any real world experience of that?

Cheers,

Eric
 
"Nothing competes with EPIC. Nothing will compete with Scarlet... except your wildest dreams...."

And what about the RED One? Sad that you´ve forgot to mention your best invention... ;-)
 
I fully expect Nov. 3rd to play out like an Apple product release.
• A month or two for internet forums to make predictions and guesses at specs & working themselves into a lather
• The announcement will be made with 10's of 1000's paying attention including many who you never knew gave a darn
• The specs/price will be immediately panned as 'meh' all over the internet with the occasional blog post blasting it as inadequate & over priced
• A few months pass and we've all bought and are using the thing, happy as clams
 
Red has a proven track record, first the RED ONE, next the RED PRO PRIMES, next the MX Uupgade, Next the 64, 128 and 256 GB SSD's and SSD module, The red DSMC Bits, then the RED EPIC M and X and now November 3,

We clearly have nothing to worry about, I trust and admire the vision Jim and the RED team have for the future they are creating.

Lets sit back relaxe and enjoy the ride. We Have an amazing team of people at RED committed to giving us the best they can no matter how disruptive it may be. yes it is disruptive. very disruptive Just look at what is said about RED by people who are invested in past and afraid of the future, where they do not lead, but only can hope to follow at best.

I am sure the Scarlet Will be great, that is in it's DNA, but I am also aware the it will be the entery level product for RED and have features and price to match.

There are the three big variables in business, Time, Money and Qualitiy. Jim has already broken all the rules and created miracles in all these areas.

Lets recognize and appreciate, Jim and the RED team for what the have done and are doing.

Lets also not fall in the trap of critizing Jim and RED for not making the Full Moon more portable so it can be used as a nice soft light source for filinging at night.

The Epic and RED ONE already do great job of low light, We should not expect the impossible Just because Jim has an amazing skill at doing it.

All that said, I excited and cannot wait for the 3rd, i will be in New Delhi drinking Chai and hitting the refresh bottom

It is clear to me the Jim is becoming a victim of his own success.

Jim has done so much with so little, for so long, that now people expect him to do anything with nothing

Thank you to Jim and the RED team for thinking and caring about the customers and users of their products,

And thank you doing it in America with American workers, it really does make me proud to that RED is a great American company.
 
Jannard said:
I have read a lot of the posts regarding Scarlet. There are so many unrealistic expectations that it takes the wind out of our sails.

Some people apparently have no idea what realistic is.

"Why not 28K at 1000fps RAW in a raisin box for $800?"

We are so happy to have a complete competitive advantage. We consider our customers as one of us. What we have always done is beat the competition in price/performance. But the misguided expectations for Scarlet are killing me.

You should expect a lot from us. But within reason. Really.

Measure us against our competitors... not your fantasies.

Nothing competes with EPIC. Nothing will compete with Scarlet... except your wildest dreams.

Get real. Get real before November 3rd. Or you will be unnecessarily disappointed. Which is totally unnecessary.

Jim
Click to expand...

Amen.

From an outsider's perspective, it seems that the "Historic"nature of the Scarlet announcement is that Red is releasing a camera priced for the broader market but with true professional capabilities. This will not be a dumbed-down model with a crippled codec.

I see history in the making. Red is going right up against the big makers and hitting them in a market sector that is high volume and which they have dominated for as long as most of us can remember.
 
The truth is, RED is ultimately responsible for the unrealistic expectations people have for Scarlet.

First, they need to stop communicating their plans to people prone to wild speculation (Business 101).

Secondly, they need to stop releasing cameras like the Epic that closely compete with or exceed cameras costing 2-5 times more (aka Alexa, F35, etc).

Third, they have to stop announcing cameras with specs that meet or exceed those of cameras costing 25x more (aka F23).

In general, stop making a mockery of the establishment.

In addition, they need to:

Stop getting so excited about Scarlet's release.

Stop expecting people to pay attention to what they ACTUALLY say, even though it often changes, and not just what they choose to read into it (NOTE: It's weird...people tend to over-analize what Jim says and try to find hidden meaning in his oftentimes cryptic posts but they seem to all but ignore his lengthier, more detailed ones).

Better identify and neutralize wishful thinkers.

Jim, it's your own damn fault, really.
 
Jannard said:
If anyone is disappointed in the Scarlet Nov. 3rd announcement... they suck. And we won't lose one minute of sleep. The announcement is just too good.

Jim
Click to expand...

ROFL

That's awesome.

A starving man dreams of endless delights... But will still wet himself if you throw him a cracker. Scarlet is no cracker. Jim, you have nothing to worry about. ;-)


David Battistella said:
I sit in a square in Florence and throw some bread out and the pigeons come around.

First I say, "look at all the nice pigeons."

Then I quickly realize that they are shitting all over everything.


Reduser at its worst in a nutshell.


David
Click to expand...

Also hilarious, if not too hostile. I'm digging the unbridled enthusiasm but I do it vicariously from my pragmatic armchair.
 
Last edited:
Eric Lange said:
Can anyone explain the “obsession” with 120 fps?


When I think of high(ish) frame rate I think of very expensive high end specialist equipment that has to be specially rented for basically 2nd unit kinds of “technical” sequences. [Not just going to 400 fps].

A 3k+ shooter that does 120 fps seems (for general applications) like a bit of oxymoron? I don’t get it… and for some reason that is something a lot of people call for (I know in the dim and distant past that was an enthusiastic spec put out there by RED a LONG TIME AGO.)

I’m trying to figure out if you have a 3k shooter how often will one actually need to shoot 120fps compared to regular shooting?

Feel free to educate me on this as I don’t have any real world experience of that?

Cheers,

Eric
Click to expand...

Up until now, we have benefited from increased linear resolution and increased dynamic resolution. It is high time we also get increased temporal resolution.
It is interesting to see that new features are now being shot at 48 f/s, but even that is not enough to avoid flicker. We need to shoot "normal" motion at least at 72 f/s to get the perception of images that are equally smooth in the motion and temporal sense as they are in image gradation and resolution. If you want slow motion or HDRx from there, you will need 144 f/s.

On the other hand, the Scarlet will also be the replacement for 16mm in technical, scientific and documentary work. In those areas, extreme slow motion has many more uses than in dramatic work.

Gripping hand: The Scarlet will have whatever speed the electronics and media can handle. It will not be limited by the mechanical complications of film. Media which will handle Epic data rates will not have any problems with even the most "overcranked" Scarlet, the bottleneck will be electronics and firmware efficiency. RED have proven themselves good at tuning firmware over time.
 
Brian Boyer said:
The truth is, RED is ultimately responsible for the unrealistic expectations people have for Scarlet.

First, they need to stop communicating their plans to people prone to wild speculation (Business 101).

Secondly, they need to stop releasing cameras like the Epic that closely compete with or exceed cameras costing 2-5 times more (aka Alexa, F35, etc).

Third, they have to stop announcing cameras with specs that meet or exceed those of cameras costing 25x more (aka F23).

In general, stop making a mockery of the establishment.

In addition, they need to:

Stop getting so excited about Scarlet's release.

Stop expecting people to pay attention to what they ACTUALLY say, even though it often changes, and not just what they choose to read into it (NOTE: It's weird...people tend to over-analize what Jim says and try to find hidden meaning in his oftentimes cryptic posts but they seem to all but ignore his lengthier, more detailed ones).

Better identify and neutralize wishful thinkers.

Jim, it's your own damn fault, really.
Click to expand...

Before people jump all over this post, I hope they realize that there is an air of sarcasm running through this entire post. It's a COMPLIMENT guys!
 
Ethan Cooper said:
I fully expect Nov. 3rd to play out like an Apple product release.
• A month or two for internet forums to make predictions and guesses at specs & working themselves into a lather
• The announcement will be made with 10's of 1000's paying attention including many who you never knew gave a darn
• The specs/price will be immediately panned as 'meh' all over the internet with the occasional blog post blasting it as inadequate & over priced
• A few months pass and we've all bought and are using the thing, happy as clams
Click to expand...


That’s very perceptive.

It’s interesting that for some reason it assumed that we MUST all fall head over heels in love with our “equipment”????


We have a lot of very unique and weird equipment and imaging systems. I also own a few Canons and Nikons and a bunch of MF stuff. If I’m ordered to go out take a bunch of pictures (stills) of this or that, without thinking I grab the Canon, (I am perverse as I use Zeiss primes on the Canon). I don’t think about it. I DON”T LOVE the camera I don’t actually really like the camera very much at all, I’m not personally “attached” to it in any way BUT it seems to grind out the imagery I need at short notice (the stills look MORE than good enough). Mentally I don’t think about the fact that I even “OWN” a canon, just in the same way that I don’t really spend a lot of time thinking about the fact that I own a particular type of screw driver….actually we have some very nice $1200 torque limited…blah blah blah).


I would say in contrast no one really gets complacent with RED equipment…the laser projector and REDRAY will be an absolutely jaw dropping addition to the RED family.

I think the Jim sentiment that ‘WE ARE JUST GETTING STARTED…” !!!! That for me is the REAL eye opener. So that’s in REALITY what interests me the most NOT a new “device” BUT, what is it that they feel that this is just the beginning of?

If they are able to communicate something that genuinely gets that idea across “FOR REALS”, in a convincing manner then that really will be a BIG DEAL. ( I know that sounds totally nuts... but obviously they feel that something major is afoot (not just Scarlet)).

A new camera is one thing but RED “just getting started” that is worth “PAYING ATTENTION TO”… Jim keeps stressing the “pay attention" angle…? Obviously there is something else that is also VERY important beyond rolling out Scarlet, and I don't think its another piece of harware or bunch of accessories.


E.
 
Bjørn Vermo said:
Up until now, we have benefited from increased linear resolution and increased dynamic resolution. It is high time we also get increased temporal resolution.
It is interesting to see that new features are now being shot at 48 f/s, but even that is not enough to avoid flicker. We need to shoot "normal" motion at least at 72 f/s to get the perception of images that are equally smooth in the motion and temporal sense as they are in image gradation and resolution. If you want slow motion or HDRx from there, you will need 144 f/s.

On the other hand, the Scarlet will also be the replacement for 16mm in technical, scientific and documentary work. In those areas, extreme slow motion has many more uses than in dramatic work.

Gripping hand: The Scarlet will have whatever speed the electronics and media can handle. It will not be limited by the mechanical complications of film. Media which will handle Epic data rates will not have any problems with even the most "overcranked" Scarlet, the bottleneck will be electronics and firmware efficiency. RED have proven themselves good at tuning firmware over time.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Eric
 
Peter Moretti said:
Before people jump all over this post, I hope they realize that there is an air of sarcasm running through this entire post. It's a COMPLIMENT guys!
Click to expand...

I have often noticed that many here seem to have a rather shaky grasp of the English language. Even some of those who have it as their native language.
We should keep this in mind when we read some of the more bizarre-looking posts on Reduser - it is more probable that the writers have misunderstood something than that they are evil or stupid.

It might be as simple as that some people have chosen to work in a visual medium because that is the way they are good at expressing themselves, and not through words.
 
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