Excited but Critical

[Nathan Troutman]

So, I've been following Red for quite awhile now and there's so much positive stuff happening. In the spirit of "we will continue to improve" I wanted to ask this of the Red community. Am I the only one that thinks the 5.6" LCD monitor is a bit disappointing? Of all the accessories it's by far the one I'm the most unexcited about. My main gripe is the size. At 5.6" it's just too small and it looks kind of cheaply built compared to the 7" and solid build of a Marshall montor. Plus now the price has gone up to $1700. $1700 for a 5.6" monitor?

As is, if RED will include all view modes through the HDMI and HD-SDI outputs I'd rather get a this Marshall monitor listed below that has HD-SDI as an on camera monitor. It's bigger, looks nicer, & it's cheaper.

Marshall V-R70P-HDSDI 7 Inch LCD Monitor for HD/SD Field Production with V-Type Battery Mount and HD/SD-SDI Inputs and Outputs

Here's the link to B&H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/392894-REG/Marshall_V_R70P_HDSDI_V_R70P_HDSDI_7_Inch_LCD.html

But there's still room to improve right? So if you'd like to see this part upgraded sound off. If you think I'm wrong tell me why so I can understand better why this is a solid product.

Here's the specs on RED's LCD:

The RED LCD is a CCIR709 8-bit color 1024 x 600 4:4:4 5.6” display that interfaces with the camera via a 17-pin 0B LEMO connector. The screen housing is ABS plastic. On the top of the LCD is a power button, brightness control arrows and a user-assignable button.

Like the viewfinder, the LCD displays the captured image along with look around, frame line overlays and status indicators. Since a 16:9 image would be 1024 x 576 pixels, the extra pixels on the display are saved for these indicators. The LCD can also display the focus assist, waveform monitors, histogram, false color exposure indicator, zebra exposure lines and potentially SMPTE bars, luminance ramp, chroma ramp or chip chart. It also displays the menu system when it is activated; as well playback when the camera is playing back completed takes.

Its ability to display all of these functions [most notably the focus assist] makes it an amazing tool for a focus puller. Not only will they have a very high resolution “video tap” of what’s going on in the camera, they’ll also have the ability to display the focus assist or blow the image up to a 1:1 pixel ratio for those extremely critical focus shots. Currently [as of the 1.0 firmware], the 2x Focus Mode is the best focus option.

The LCD is quite bright, being designed for use indoors or outdoors. While a sun shade wouldn't be a bad idea, it is apparently quite viewable in direct sunlight.

The LCD mounts to the camera body or RED RAIL system via the RED ARM – it has one ¼”-20 threaded mounting point on the bottom and another on the back. There are literally dozens of places to mount the LCD with RED ARM on the RED RAIL system.

There are 3 foot [$200] and 10 foot [$300] extension cables available, so the LCD can live up to 10 feet away from the camera.

As pictured, the LCD comes with a RED ARM and a 2' LCD cable.

 

[Brian Broz]

The Marshall VR70 "HD" is 800x480 resolution, as opposed to Red's 1024x600 pixel resolution in a slightly smaller size.

 

[Nathan Troutman]

RED's LCD does have higher resolution this is true but is it worth it? What's more critical a little more resolution or a lot more size? Which monitor looks like the professionally built one - to me it's the marshall.

 

[Nathan Troutman]

All you need to do is make a custom cable from the red to a BNC connector.... so you can use the current LCD output on a regular monitor.

My custom cable making abilities aren't so hot. I thought I had read that Red was planning to support all view modes through all video outputs? Maybe a current Red owner can chime in on this.

PS - I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a Marshall monitor sitting on top of Offhollywood's Red camera from productions stills they posted from their first feature film shoot with Red.

 

[Vladimir Eugene]

From a weight standpoint. It weighs a lot, one of the main reasons to go with it anyways is because you can split the signal. With some of the other outputs from RED being hot, I prefer the lighter version- the RED LCD.

 

[Adrian T.]

Plus now the price has gone up to $1700.

The price was always set at $1700. Since its first announcement in March 2007.

 

[planet e]

nathan, when you throw in the battery required to run the Marshall monitor (i have one), it's a wash in terms of price, so you're really choosing size versus resolution, and there are definite advantages to both. i plan to use both.

 

[Nathan Troutman]

nathan, when you throw in the battery required to run the Marshall monitor (i have one), it's a wash in terms of price, so you're really choosing size versus resolution, and there are definite advantages to both. i plan to use both.

That's why what I'd really like is a redesigned Red LCD that is 7" because the Red LCD doesn't require an external battery like the Marshall; rather it draws it's power from the camera through the proprietary cable it has (this is how I think it works). The extra resolution is nice but how much of the detail is lost because the size of the monitor is tiny. The specs of the marshall are the specs everyone wants in an on-camera LCD monitor - that's why it's such a popular choice. I hope the Red team takes another look.

 

[Nick Gardner]

I'd field test that marshal before you buy. I used one on a job and thought it was next to useless. The off axis viewing sucks, the contrast and color change if your head is 2mm to the right of where it was two seconds ago. And talk anout feeling cheap.....I would go with the new panasonic 8 inch. It has a very nice focus assist as well as wave form built in and it looks fantastic. I don't claim that you can see it outside.....Also check out transvideo. They make the only absolutely honest to god see it in direct sun wthout any kind of shade, monitor I have ever seen. Again, not cheap.

Peace,
Nick

 

[Joe Vinson]

Hey, where's Bruce in this discussion?

 

[Rocco Schult]

Bruce's monitor is a top product with an even better price/performance ratio.
But its an indie product, and must relate to world economics.

The only disadvantage I see is its brightness and wondered if we get enough poeple/interestants together for it to be produced in a high brightness version.
This is custom stuff and costs a lot of money, but is highly dependent on volume. If we get 100 together, it might be profitable for all parties.

Bruce might chime in here as I am not aware of his production capabilities.

 

[Dalibor Fencl]

Personally I'd find the larger LCD bit awkward when operating the cam handheld. 5.6'' should be fine if you watch it from about 1 foot distance.

 

[Christopher Gosch]

Panasonic HD

Panasonic HD

I have a Panasonic 7.9" HD Onboard monitor. It is levels above the Marshall. Is daylight viewable. HD resolution HDSDI and works as a viewfinder as well with my HPX500. When I receive my red (next Month hopefully) I think this will be the best monitor possible.

 

[Andreas Reischl]

I'd field test that marshal before you buy. I used one on a job and thought it was next to useless. The off axis viewing sucks, the contrast and color change if your head is 2mm to the right of where it was two seconds ago. And talk anout feeling cheap.....I would go with the new panasonic 8 inch. It has a very nice focus assist as well as wave form built in and it looks fantastic. I don't claim that you can see it outside.....Also check out transvideo. They make the only absolutely honest to god see it in direct sun wthout any kind of shade, monitor I have ever seen. Again, not cheap.

Peace,
Nick

Unfortunately it's the same with the RED LCD, we had this problem on a shoot and that's why an external monitor had to be brought in for the non-handheld shots later on.

But since it's all about evolving products here at RED, I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with a better solution somewhere down the road.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Bruce's monitor is a top product with an even better price/performance ratio.
But its an indie product, and must relate to world economics.

The only disadvantage I see is its brightness and wondered if we get enough poeple/interestants together for it to be produced in a high brightness version.
This is custom stuff and costs a lot of money, but is highly dependent on volume. If we get 100 together, it might be profitable for all parties.

Bruce might chime in here as I am not aware of his production capabilities.

Bruce duly chiming in - yes, all of the above (brighter backlight, daylight readable, etc) is do-able. Only problem is, I make much better money per hour doing post production stuff than I do with monitors and I am swamped with work right now, so the interest and free time isn't really there to ramp up production, let alone do upgrades. I have shipped a few but have a backlog of about 20 orders. I can't start a company and do it big-time because of work visa and financial issues. Also, don't want to get pigeonholed on the Internet as "the monitor guy"

High brightness versions and daylight readable upgrades aren't rocket science really. Mostly it involves a brighter backlight, better optical coatings and in the case of daylight-readable, a transreflective setup.

If people are interested in a group buy, cool, maybe we can do it in the future. If not, I'll probably do it myself - I think the current daylight readable stuff is horribly overpriced.

But then I thought the Marshall was horribly overpriced too. Now I realize that with the time it takes to get a nice case designed, power issues etc set up, it is probably just slightly overpriced.

I DO wish they had started off with a truly high res panel though. Mine is based on a 1280x768 panel that was reasonably easy to find (only took 100 hours or so of Internet searching, a few weeks of queries, etc for me and I'm an individual - sure it'd be a piece of cake for Marshall). You'd think all of the companies would be at that res or higher now.

I think the whole industry is kinda stringing you guys along - Panasonic et all could build a great 720p or 1080p portable LCD right now but they'd rather you pay for gradual upgrades over the years. What we need is the Red of monitors - mine is a attempt, but I'm a filmmaker first and foremost and monitor company management my top priority.

Try Luis - he's also a filmmaker but maybe he can be convinced to do this with more haste than me. Very nice guy, hope he'll chime in (there I go, passing the buck...)

Okay, back to check on the render farm now...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com