Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EX1 vs. RED

I have no idea how many stops the ex1 has poi. All companies stretch the stops they report their cameras to have, so I would not trust what sony is saying. All I know is I and many other independant profesionals have tested the red camera and they all come up with about 9 stops. 9 stops however is very good and I have no problem with it. You have a camera though so test it, I am quite confident that you will come up with 9ish.
 
I guess my point is that one should not get hung up on the numbers; call it 9 call it 11 doesn't matter because everyone quantifies it differently. what is fairly obvious (at least to me) is that the red image is far superior to the ex1 image; the numbers just seem to get in the way and mislead a lot of people. ex1=great camcorder, red=great cinema camera
Aloha
-A
 
mine goes to 11.
kidding, i really don't care, call it 7 or 6.987 or 9.
Aloha
-A
 
Hell no I don't want 7.

9 is quite good though.
 
7 is lucky ! number 9 number 9.. paul is a dead man miss him miss him...
-A
 
I don't believe the EX1 has any more latitude than RED, probably less..

But I wonder if 1080P and 11+ real stops of latitude would be better than 4K and 9 stops? By better I mean more beautiful and more practically useful over the next 4-5 years or so.
 
easy answer, no. that is what i mean by getting hung up on the numbers. Look at the images from the two cameras and decide what you like.
-A
 
I really can't believe that folks are still comparing these two cameras.

Anyone who has tested or worked with both will know that they serve different purposes completely.

You need a Full Crew inc FP to run the RED to full potential. The ex1 is more for run and gun work.

Both are great but different. Latitude is a non issue as you need to work within similar limits for both.
 
Poi Boy said:
easy answer, no. that is what i mean by getting hung up on the numbers. Look at the images from the two cameras and decide what you like.
-A
Click to expand...


Well that's what I mean really. RED has better pictures.
The EX1 is more practical for some filming scenarios.

But going forward.. I think I'd like to film on a digital camera with more latitude, even if that meant reducing the number of pixels to 2K or HD. Clipping is just the ugliest thing I have ever seen. Obviously the Sony EX1 is not that camera, but I am a little disappointed that RED isn't either.
I think improvements in latitude and overall sensitivity to light are the medium-term future for Digital Cinema, and I do therefore wonder what RED and other manufacturers will be able to do in this area over the next year or two.
 
fergus said:
But going forward.. I think I'd like to film on a digital camera with more latitude, even if that meant reducing the number of pixels to 2K or HD. Clipping is just the ugliest thing I have ever seen. Obviously the Sony EX1 is not that camera, but I am a little disappointed that RED isn't either.
I think improvements in latitude and overall sensitivity to light are the medium-term future for Digital Cinema, and I do therefore wonder what RED and other manufacturers will be able to do in this area over the next year or two.
Click to expand...

Well said. I agree with you.
 
Poi Boy said:
I guess my point is that one should not get hung up on the numbers; call it 9 call it 11 doesn't matter because everyone quantifies it differently. what is fairly obvious (at least to me) is that the red image is far superior to the ex1 image; the numbers just seem to get in the way and mislead a lot of people. ex1=great camcorder, red=great cinema camera
Aloha
-A
Click to expand...

Right on target. A big part of this is how the image rolls into under and over exposure as well as color rendition, noise, edginess and other intangibles. In the end it's a combination of how YOU like the footage and the workflow both on set and in post.
 
The Third Man said:
RED is more like this 6:weight_lift: : 6:weight_lift: : 6:weight_lift: .
Click to expand...

No its not. 4:4:4 or 6:6:6 (same thing) implies equal red, green and blue sensitive pixels.

I believe Mysterium has twice as many green sensitive pixels than red or blue, so its not strictly 4:4:4, and Red haven`t claimed it is. I`ve heard Rob desciribe the sensor data as being like a 4k high bit depth greyscale image, which after demosaic produces a roughly 3k colour image. I believe every pixel is sensitive to every colour, but in vary degrees (hence 3k of RGB detail, not 2k)
If you created a supersampled 2k frame from a 4k master (using spline interpolation), I would venture to say its close to 4:4:4 @ 2k, and if output to a lossless format, the nasty artifacts Ive been seeing in the blue channel (in some DPXs) from compression, will no doubt be improved.
 
ronx said:
No its not. 4:4:4 or 6:6:6 (same thing) implies equal red, green and blue sensitive pixels.

I believe Mysterium has twice as many green sensitive pixels than red or blue, so its not strictly 4:4:4, and Red haven`t claimed it is.
Click to expand...

Originally 4:2:2 referred to sampling frequencies while digitizing NTSC and PAL. It does not mean the relative ratio of RGB pixels in a Bayer pattern Red chip. Also, please note that terms such as 4:2:0, 3:1:1, have now become an abuse, as this is not the intended usage of the original notation.
 
ronx said:
No its not. 4:4:4 or 6:6:6 (same thing) implies equal red, green and blue sensitive pixels.

I believe Mysterium has twice as many green sensitive pixels than red or blue, so its not strictly 4:4:4, and Red haven`t claimed it is. I`ve heard Rob desciribe the sensor data as being like a 4k high bit depth greyscale image, which after demosaic produces a roughly 3k colour image. I believe every pixel is sensitive to every colour, but in vary degrees (hence 3k of RGB detail, not 2k)
If you created a supersampled 2k frame from a 4k master (using spline interpolation), I would venture to say its close to 4:4:4 @ 2k, and if output to a lossless format, the nasty artifacts Ive been seeing in the blue channel (in some DPXs) from compression, will no doubt be improved.
Click to expand...

Blah blah blah ! dude get over all these numbers ! They don't mean shit .Supersampled 2K from 4 K ... venture 444@2k means nothing ! excuse my rant , I've had a couple but have you looked at the footage ? and compared to what was the norm six months ago ?

"I think I'd like to film on a digital camera with more latitude, even if that meant reducing the number of pixels to 2K or HD. Clipping is just the ugliest thing I have ever seen. Obviously the Sony EX1 is not that camera, but I am a little disappointed that RED isn't either."
You gotta be kidding ! ... Red image when done well is hard to beat, not unbeatable but hard to beat. Will it get better ? Yes. but it is certainly not hurting for latitude or picture quality.
-A

_A
 
Hey Alex. I'm totally convinced that RED takes nice pictures. I liked the look of the footage that you have posted! :-) But as you say, it's not perfect huh.. And I was just wanting to discuss where Digital Cinema could improve. I know it's great now but I feel the look, the clipping, the latitude.. are things that need to be developed. I'm sure if you asked Jim he would say that the RED engineers are working on it. It's the future for DSLR development too don't you think?
 
What about the ex1 with letus extreme and cineform recorder as the ultimate indi camera? 4:2:2 of the HD SDI out to the cineform right?

I mean I saw Mr. bean goes on holiday at the theater. and there was not a shocking difference between his little handycam and the film camera. (aside from the shaking and DOF) Which the letus and a tripod can fix.
 
red i wanabe said:
What about the ex1 with letus extreme and cineform recorder as the ultimate indi camera? 4:2:2 of the HD SDI out to the cineform right?
Click to expand...

Right, plus Cineform's compression. A friend of mine may end up with that rig. If he gets it we'll test it vs. RED.

Looking at more of P.Bloom's footage there's something that still feels "adaptery" to me. Not sure what it is - probably something to do with the ground glasses transferring the image as opposed to the image hitting the sensor directly. RED will always have that advantage. How much is that worth? People will decide for themselves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top