EVF Differences

[Linda Barzini]

Besides the mounting mechanism and emblem, are there any differences between the EVF OLED for DSMC and DSMC2?

 

[mmvid]

I'm wondering the same thing? Anybody have any insight? I have the DSMC and it's been great for several years but just yesterday the screen inside went dark and I can't get it back.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Linda,

I assume you are asking the difference between the original Bomb OLED EVF and the replacement DSMC2 OLED EVF? If so the new DSMC2 OLED is 1920x1080 so much better for making calls on focus although in a perfect world there would be even more resolution. The older Bomb OLED EVF was only 1280x720 and to be honest it looked a lot softer than that. You could easily be buzzed with focus and not know it. Also the DSMC2 OLED optics are way better and the screen presents much larger to the eye and you are not looking down a tunnel of black to see the image like the Bomb EVF. DSMC2 OLED EVF has wonderful colour and deep OLED blacks and it is better than the Alexa EVF and the Sony F55 EVFs I have used. The Panavision DXL EVF probably smokes them all and I have heard nice things said about the Panasonic Varicam EVF but I have not seen it.

I feel strongly about EVFs as a great EVF helps to inspire my work. Nothing more dreary than looking at a soft flat image all day.

 

[Michael Lindsay]

I agree with TOM the dmc2 EVF is a lot better...

What would improve it:

I would really rather a slightly bigger image..
Adjustable sharpness/ edge enhancement... not just on or off
Sharpness on Edges should be extracted from all pixels not just the green ones as it is now... (but this is a request for all Red monitors not just EVFs)
Greater + diopter range... If you want older fantastic DPs using red cameras this is an issue.. I suspect the Red team is quite young.. Arri's EVF can be adjusted for older eyes

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Michael,

IMHO I am happy with the size of the image and its a big improvement on the Bomb EVF. The Alexa EVF is just that bit bigger and I find it a bit "awkward" seeing right into the top and bottom side edges. This may have to do with the shape of my face?
I totally agree with adjustable sharpness/ edge enhancement as opposed to the present to just on or off. I was unaware that the edges were extracted from just the green pixels and uncertain why? I am falling into the older DP range and presently the diopter range is at maximum on my EVF and this is going to become a real issue for me in the future.

 

[Brendan H. Banks]

Thought I'd chime in. When I needed an EVF I was shopping for a while. A longtime Red owner friend of mine suggested just starting with a used BOMB LCOS EVF as a cheap way to get into EVF use. It's not for everyone so you could resell for about the same cost. I ended up falling in love and shooting with that, but keeping my eyes peeled for a BOMB OLED. I found one at a reasonable price and upgraded, but not without testing the DSMC2 EVF. The DSMC2 EVF is gorgeous. It's a great design and when looking through it feels really good. I am a sucker for the Alexa EVF as it's nearly perfect in my opinion, but the DSMC2 EVF really felt very close. At the end of the day, the price difference between a BOMB OLED and DSMC2 OLED was just too much for me to justify it.

For me the EVF is about operating and getting a little "lost" in the image. I find my framing to be more precise and I get to be more focused on the image, and sometimes even more aware of my surroundings as I can look through the EVF and keep my left eye open to watch for things around me. Personally, getting an EVF faster for less was more important to my work than waiting months to save up for the best. If you're able to test a couple, that is ideal.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I do use the Blackmagic EVF with wooden camera modded. I use it also to pull focus and love it. The immersive feeling is great on that EVF.

I would love to see a manufacturer wich would offer a small form factor evf with an ajustable optical eyecup to be able to zoom in the picture if desired and a variable peaking depending on situation wich would adapt itself depending low contrast or highcontrast scene.

Pat

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

With the advent of high resolution digital motion cameras, and actual UHD/4K contracted deliverables, we need 2160/60P monitoring - including the EVF.

If the PV EVF for the Millennium DXL was for sale ala carte, and could interface with a RED CF Weapon, I'd be sorely tempted - even if it cost $8K. As I understand it, there is actually a separate processing pipeline on the DXL EVF that supports, among other things, the ability to magnify during recording. Doubt it will happen, as Panavision would be ceding a competitive advantage, but if they do...

Cheers - #19

 

[Patrick Tresch]

With the advent of high resolution digital motion cameras, and actual UHD/4K contracted deliverables, we need 2160/60P monitoring - including the EVF.

If the PV EVF for the Millennium DXL was for sale ala carte, and could interface with a RED CF Weapon, I'd be sorely tempted - even if it cost $8K. As I understand it, there is actually a separate processing pipeline on the DXL EVF that supports, among other things, the ability to magnify during recording. Doubt it will happen, as Panavision would be ceding a competitive advantage, but if they do...

Cheers - #19

But do they magnify the HD signal (like other do) or the 6/8k picture from the sensor?

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

IIRC, Michael Cioni told me that the EVF has it's own micro computer built into it that supports an actual UHD (2160P) raster. Part of the processing may be done on the camera body, so even if you could get a DXL EVF (which I'd wager you can't), you might still be unable to enjoy all it's features without some pre-processing. BTW, the DXL offers an amazing array of individually controlled outputs at both HD and UHD resolutions that I would love to see come to an expander module from RED or a third party...

FWIW, I'd love to see a UHD RedCast module for DSMC 2. Perhaps a 2 piece design that put the processing engine and 14 pin support in the primary section at a decent price point with an option to piggyback a second module with SMPTE fiber, monitor return, comms, etc for live hardlined UHD production integration.

Cheers - #19

 

[Michael Hastings]

I do use the Blackmagic EVF with wooden camera modded. I use it also to pull focus and love it. The immersive feeling is great on that EVF.

I would love to see a manufacturer wich would offer a small form factor evf with an ajustable optical eyecup to be able to zoom in the picture if desired and a variable peaking depending on situation wich would adapt itself depending low contrast or highcontrast scene.



Pat

Pat
Which camera do you have. I tried the stock BMD with my Epic-W and there was major interference

Works fine on Ursa Mini Pro so seems like a Red issue? Does wooden add some kind of shielding?

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Pat
Which camera do you have. I tried the stock BMD with my Epic-W and there was major interference

Works fine on Ursa Mini Pro so seems like a Red issue? Does wooden add some kind of shielding?

I use the Weapon MG Dragon. Do you use the Woodencamera Modded version?
I don't have interference. The "good thing" is also that when battery gets low (less than 13V I think) the monitor gets a bit weird...
But no other complaint.

Pat

 

[Michael Lindsay]

Hi Tom

I totally agree with adjustable sharpness/ edge enhancement as opposed to the present to just on or off. I was unaware that the edges were extracted from just the green pixels and uncertain why?

I found out this totally by accident a while back and it is totally undestadable from Red's pov as there more Green photo sites so it should be very accurate. However as you would know, but an electronics or sensor engineer may not, lenses don't always focus Purple and Green at the same depth. (Red and blue are furtherst apart in wavelenght and the major effort seens to be to bring these two into alignment... ...createing purple).. If you find a lens that is particaulrly bad at this and foucs using the peaking tool it will leave for a purple bloom... but if you turn it off and focus carefully you bring the image into better focus.

I am falling into the older DP range and presently the diopter range is at maximum on my EVF and this is going to become a real issue for me in the future.

Yes the adjustment is very limited for older eyes as it is barely more than the equivalent to a + 1 diopter... which is used to balance quite mild far sightedness.. Now on a positive note Red did claim originally that with the DMC2 EVF there was potentially going to be other optics availbe at some point? Perhaps we need a little petition? What I worry about from Reds pop is that 45+ year old DPs just try it once and reach for an Alexa instead cause lets face it nobody liked to be made to feel more disabled..!

 

[paulcurtis]

Yes the adjustment is very limited for older eyes as it is barely more than the equivalent to a + 1 diopter... which is used to balance quite mild far sightedness.. Now on a positive note Red did claim originally that with the DMC2 EVF there was potentially going to be other optics availbe at some point? Perhaps we need a little petition? What I worry about from Reds pop is that 45+ year old DPs just try it once and reach for an Alexa instead cause lets face it nobody liked to be made to feel more disabled..!

The front element of the EVF does screw out and i've always wondered whether different optics can be made that magnify the image a little. I do find it a little small to be honest. Plus i am getting to the limits of the adjustment as well...

cheers
Paul

 

[Michael Lindsay]

The front element of the EVF does screw out and i've always wondered whether different optics can be made that magnify the image a little. I do find it a little small to be honest. Plus i am getting to the limits of the adjustment as well...

cheers
Paul

There is loads of adjustment available for short sighted young people but only a little for older long sighted guys... (feels like a metaphor too me;-) ... in fairness Red told me when it came out other optics where possible (and even planned)... perhaps we should create a poll to push them from the drawing board out the door?

I got my first reading glasses 3months ago and I am quite near the end of adjustment... also I would like a slightly bigger and more immersive image....but that was not planned as far as I remember. I'll ask the Red guy I spoke to what he said exactly and report back.

I think the PV VF would be a a lot more than $8k and I advise anyone to not to look through it... Same logic as not flying in good seats unless you can keep flying in good seats;-)

 

[Patrick Tresch]

To bad there is allways accessories RED makes that are nearly good but not perfect.

EVF should be in the center of their attention (and not so much LCD) as this is how we DP frame most accurately when on shoulder or even on sticks.

Same fail with their modules that are nearly perfect like for the sound module wich actually is a battery holder (I don't use) and has some big XLR inputs but you can't access the AES input of the camera.

TA3 with Line/+48V/AES input possibility for sound would be great or even a superslot module.

 

[Oron Cohen]

To bad there is allways accessories RED makes that are nearly good but not perfect.

EVF should be in the center of their attention (and not so much LCD) as this is how we DP frame most accurately when on shoulder or even on sticks.

Same fail with their modules that are nearly perfect like for the sound module wich actually is a battery holder (I don't use) and has some big XLR inputs but you can't access the AES input of the camera.

TA3 with Line/+48V/AES input possibility for sound would be great or even a superslot module.

I've used Arri EVF, looked through the Panasonic EVF and Used the Sony F55 EVF. RED new EVF is on par or better then all of them IMHO, and cost 50-150% less, so I'm not sure what are you talking about?

RED as well as ARRI don't put XLR's as first priority as they are meant for motion picture work, all the sound guys I worked with ALWAYS record to an external recorder and need way more then 2 channels for sound.
Having said that, if you're making docs, sometimes you do need in camera audio, for that you have the new offHollywood module, but I can understand people who prefer to work with Canon/Sony/Panasonic for docs, they have a tradition of ENG gear and in some ways are more suited for that kind of work, there is no one camera fits all, but if there is, RED camera's with the switchable modules are the closest thing to it I think.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I've used Arri EVF, looked through the Panasonic EVF and Used the Sony F55 EVF. RED new EVF is on par or better then all of them IMHO, and cost 50-150% less, so I'm not sure what are you talking about?

RED as well as ARRI don't put XLR's as first priority as they are meant for motion picture work, all the sound guys I worked with ALWAYS record to an external recorder and need way more then 2 channels for sound.
Having said that, if you're making docs, sometimes you do need in camera audio, for that you have the new offHollywood module, but I can understand people who prefer to work with Canon/Sony/Panasonic for docs, they have a tradition of ENG gear and in some ways are more suited for that kind of work, there is no one camera fits all, but if there is, RED camera's with the switchable modules are the closest thing to it I think.

Arri isn't the benchmark. They usually follow the industry with 2-10 years delay (focus, gimbal, steadycam, 4k+, wifi, audio). So they will follow the audio recording capabilities on their Mini's within 1 or 2 years... but with best of industry audio.

Red do propose a XLR module wich actually is a battery holder and there is no AES input. Or the base expander wich is the basic "motion picutre" module made for dual recording. But They are sound guys out there (or even DPs that love sound) that would love to push the envelope of sound in "motion picture cameras" (what ever this means).

PS: To bad the other brand's evf are as bad as the RED bomb evf. Blackmagic EVF has a way better immersive experience than those post stamps EVF.

PS2: Light meter and EVF are our main tools to work on a picture. They shouldn't be compromised and should have professional options (peaking intensity control, optical magnification, Full HD or more, instant magnification...)

 

[Andrew Lin]

I do use the Blackmagic EVF with wooden camera modded. I use it also to pull focus and love it. The immersive feeling is great on that EVF.

I would love to see a manufacturer wich would offer a small form factor evf with an ajustable optical eyecup to be able to zoom in the picture if desired and a variable peaking depending on situation wich would adapt itself depending low contrast or highcontrast scene.

Pat

Pat,

Looking at picking up the BMD EVF for my Weapon MG as well but with the tilta rehousing. Any chance you could take about the features that you still have access to? From what I've been able to gether the film-log does not work and the exposure assist options do not read the signal properly but neither of those are big concerns to me. Would love to know whether the tally light works and any other thoughts you have on using a rehoused BMD EVF on your red?

Cheers in advance,

 

[BrendanLeahy]

I really hope RED surprises us at CineGear with a lower-priced EVF. I've dreamed of owning one, but the cost is prohibitive. Don't get me wrong, I love my 7", but I'd prefer to bury myself in the image like I used to back in my 5D days