Everything changes... IMPORTANT post.

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Who am I pushing against by complaining about my investment loss? Do you really think RED is truly listening to us, to decide the price of their product? If you do, then you truly are deluded, and have zero business sense. If you think that pushing back against the people who are complaining is going to help sway RED to lower their prices then repeat my conclusion in the first sentence. I am not slamming you Elsie, and I don't think that of you, I'm just bringing to light what maybe your not seeing here.

I've seen quite a few Epic X and M owners come by and voice there opinion, saying they're welcome to a price drop hoping it gets in more hands....I could be blind though. Tom Lowe said somewhere he's ok with the drop, several other prominent members have voiced this as well. I think you're generalizing to much, or really only seeing it as Scarlet users begging for a price drop, which isn't the case. I've seen it split for Epic owners and welcomed for Scarlet owners. I was about to buy an Epic 2-3 months ago and sat back with patience til I really needed it, still don't but i'm glad I did.

Your getting a 6K camera for a reasonable upgrade price on your Epic.

How do you think Scarlet owners will feel, especially those who bought in early expecting to get a Dragon upgrade, because it was said it would happen, to later hear it may or may not, or it may be beyond the point where it even makes sense? I'd imagine they feel the same as you. But at this point I don't see many people complaining about that. I think most are sitting patiently waiting to see what RED would do. Either way I don't think there is really anything to worry about. My Camera hasn't rented enough IMO, but it's a saturated market. It's not what I expected it to be, but I do other work to make up for it.

I edit and do graphics for outside content. Maybe those feeling ripped off or worried should find other ways to make a living. I'd say my Scarlet really only accounts for 30% of what I've made this year. I'm not singling you out, i'm just saying this is a tough game on all levels. I've worked in a ski shop at times to keep at it. I'm not from wealth, I have student loans, I have a family, I had to leave the military with an injury which isn't what I wanted. Things in life change. Make changes and adjust appropriately. This is how I feel about others too. I'm no wiser than anyone here. I'm learning, probably not as good at the work everyone else does, but I've found a niche I can work in, and found other things to fill my bank account to pay my bills. In the end this is all that matters, and that I love doing it.

There are risks in any decision we make in life. I learned a few things in my short time in the Army, you always adjust as necessary. If something isn't working, there is a problem somewhere. You can't blame the higher ups for making changes, because at the end of the day we're on the front lines making the work happen. We are ambassadors in a way. RED provides us with a weapon, it is our job to find that work, get the work and make RED the standard. Getting jobs is like a battle. We have to sell ourselves, the camera, and the tech to win the market and jobs.


I at the same time understand how it affects those who have spent this money in the past, but as many have said, there are clearly other examples of this whether it's Avid's, prior cameras costs, we have RED to thank for making it affordable in whichever camera we choose to shoot. You think the F5 and F55 would be under 100K if it weren't for the R1? Things are changing fast. This isn't just pointed at you Jon, i'm just replying to your post where your saying that it's pretty much only people without RED's and Scarlet owners that want this, and that simply isn't the case. If the price remains the same, thats fine with me, i'll work harder to get there.

Things in life change, Tech changes, It's our responsibility to change with it and continue to grow.

 

[Martin Weiss]

Actually, he called everyone who believes that RED has their customer interests at heart deluded. Which makes me deluded, as per Jons definition, though Merriam-Webster might disagree.

Please, for the love of (insert higher being of your choice here), stop all the personal nit-picking and name-calling. Later today we'll find out what those reductions are, and then we can move on with that information.

 

[Jon Jones]

Even though I don't agree with anything your saying, I literally laughed when you said I should have my own forum on my own computer, LOL. And then you said with all due respect! It reminded me of Talledega Nights. Funny man.

Martin, I said "with all due respect" '-) (and that was even after he called me deluded)

 

[Gabriel Scindian]

Who am I pushing against by complaining about my investment loss? Do you really think RED is truly listening to us, to decide the price of their product? If you do, then you truly are deluded, and have zero business sense. If you think that pushing back against the people who are complaining is going to help sway RED to lower their prices then repeat my conclusion in the first sentence. I am not slamming you Elsie, and I don't think that of you, I'm just bringing to light what maybe your not seeing here.

In the end RED is a business that sells a product or products. There will be price revisions that will go up and down depending on the market which we saw last year when prices went up. To all Epic and Scarlet owners, you invested in your company and self by making these purchases at the time you did. We see price reductions all over the place in everything we buy and sell and it is naive to think that things will not change. There is no reason to complain nor push forwards or backwards. Epic is your tool. Use it to make that investment back because there is always something bigger and better lurking around the corner. Before we know it we will be at 16 to 20k. Technology doubles every 6 months.

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

Honestly - The top 4 threads of the Recon threads have all desceneded to multiple arguments in the absence of reason, respect or logic.
Happy thoughts! It's nearly Christmas!

 

[Kyle Stauffer]

Tried to scan the past 100+ pages, but does anyone know when the pricing announcement might happen?

 

[Martin Weiss]

Today 5 p.m. California time.

The correct date is Nov. 1st and at about 5pm PST.

 

[Andy White]

Tried to scan the past 100+ pages, but does anyone know when the pricing announcement might happen?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?87987-New-pricing

 

[Jon Jones]

Jeffrey, Man you are so right. When it comes down to it, none of this really matters. I mean what made us buy cameras in the first place, because awesome cameras came at us for really reasonable prices, it wasn't until later that it morphed into a business scheme for me at least. I don't know why it is that I try to make it into an investment argument, when really the investment was second to me when I bought it. I mean the RED cameras that I have still work and still produce awesome images. Many people have said that on this thread Jeffrey but your story really hit hard for me. Thanks for bringing me back to earth bro.

I've seen quite a few Epic X and M owners come by and voice there opinion, saying they're welcome to a price drop hoping it gets in more hands....I could be blind though. Tom Lowe said somewhere he's ok with the drop, several other prominent members have voiced this as well. I think you're generalizing to much, or really only seeing it as Scarlet users begging for a price drop, which isn't the case. I've seen it split for Epic owners and welcomed for Scarlet owners. I was about to buy an Epic 2-3 months ago and sat back with patience til I really needed it, still don't but i'm glad I did.

Your getting a 6K camera for a reasonable upgrade price on your Epic.

How do you think Scarlet owners will feel, especially those who bought in early expecting to get a Dragon upgrade, because it was said it would happen, to later hear it may or may not, or it may be beyond the point where it even makes sense? I'd imagine they feel the same as you. But at this point I don't see many people complaining about that. I think most are sitting patiently waiting to see what RED would do. Either way I don't think there is really anything to worry about. My Camera hasn't rented enough IMO, but it's a saturated market. It's not what I expected it to be, but I do other work to make up for it.

I edit and do graphics for outside content. Maybe those feeling ripped off or worried should find other ways to make a living. I'd say my Scarlet really only accounts for 30% of what I've made this year. I'm not singling you out, i'm just saying this is a tough game on all levels. I've worked in a ski shop at times to keep at it. I'm not from wealth, I have student loans, I have a family, I had to leave the military with an injury which isn't what I wanted. Things in life change. Make changes and adjust appropriately. This is how I feel about others too. I'm no wiser than anyone here. I'm learning, probably not as good at the work everyone else does, but I've found a niche I can work in, and found other things to fill my bank account to pay my bills. In the end this is all that matters, and that I love doing it.

There are risks in any decision we make in life. I learned a few things in my short time in the Army, you always adjust as necessary. If something isn't working, there is a problem somewhere. You can't blame the higher ups for making changes, because at the end of the day we're on the front lines making the work happen. We are ambassadors in a way. RED provides us with a weapon, it is our job to find that work, get the work and make RED the standard. Getting jobs is like a battle. We have to sell ourselves, the camera, and the tech to win the market and jobs.

I at the same time understand how it affects those who have spent this money in the past, but as many have said, there are clearly other examples of this whether it's Avid's, prior cameras costs, we have RED to thank for making it affordable in whichever camera we choose to shoot. You think the F5 and F55 would be under 100K if it weren't for the R1? Things are changing fast. This isn't just pointed at you Jon, i'm just replying to your post where your saying that it's pretty much only people without RED's and Scarlet owners that want this, and that simply isn't the case. If the price remains the same, thats fine with me, i'll work harder to get there.

Things in life change, Tech changes, It's our responsibility to change with it and continue to grow.

 

[Elsie N]

Alot of talk from people that don't even own cameras.....

Not too sure who this is directed toward but I own 2 Epics, upgraded from two R-1s. And while I don't tell people the cameras are roughly $35,000 apiece for brain only, I do tell them that these are the same models that The Hobbit, Spiderman etc were shot on. But I put myself in shoes of others like myself who want to shoot the RED system but have been just short of buying an acrobatic Epic. I spent many Wylie Coyote years (lean years) saving to buy the first R-1, then the second, then taking a loan that was only recently paid off for the Stage 2 deposit, then selling the Stage 2 R-1, then putting down money I got from selling treasured assets to pay the difference for a Stage 3 Epic. I'VE GOT REAL SKIN (flesh) IN THE GAME, yet I do not begrudge Epic owner wannabees their possibility of getting to where I'm at. Those who lobby against the price decrease are anathema to me.

 

[Jon Jones]

Settle down there, no one here is attacking you Elsie. The sooner you realize that, the better. No one here is better than another person just because they spout off their opinion about a certain matter while others think that those that do that are denounced.

Those who lobby against the price decrease are anathema to me.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Jeffrey, Man you are so right. When it comes down to it, none of this really matters. I mean what made us buy cameras in the first place, because awesome cameras came at us for really reasonable prices, it wasn't until later that it morphed into a business scheme for me at least. I don't know why it is that I try to make it into an investment argument, when really the investment was second to me when I bought it. I mean the RED cameras that I have still work and still produce awesome images. Many people have said that on this thread Jeffrey but your story really hit hard for me. Thanks for bringing me back to earth bro.

Amen dude. I'd be lying if I didn't have a little emotion attached to my Scarlet purchased. I was passionate about it, I wanted it for a long time. It was part of a business plan, but it was so much more too. Even if the price comes down, it gives more users the chance to feel that excitement of opening the box the camera is contained in. It is up to them to find the work. People seem to forget that these cameras open doors, but you only keep sustained work if you BRING IT. Lowering the price puts more cameras out there, but it only eliminates the work if they're being used how they should be and that's never a guarantee.

While I want an Epic, I can't promise myself I'll get a ton of work with it. I'm sure there is a reason i don't get hired to shoot as often as others. I'm still learning and i'm taking a risk and learning while I go, but aren't we all?

 

[Jon Jones]

And no one is lobbying anything...

 

[Elsie N]

Settle down there, no one here is attacking you Elsie. The sooner you realize that, the better. No one here is better than another person just because they spout off their opinion about a certain matter while others think that those that do that are denounced.

Pipple can attack me all they want. I can take it. And my stance is more about people attacking the price drop which does not affect me personally.

 

[Bryan Moore]

Not too sure who this is directed toward but I own 2 Epics, upgraded from two R-1s. And while I don't tell people the cameras are roughly $35,000 apiece for brain only, I do tell them that these are the same models that The Hobbit, Spiderman etc were shot on. But I put myself in shoes of others like myself who want to shoot the RED system but have been just short of buying an acrobatic Epic. I spent many Wylie Coyote years (lean years) saving to buy the first R-1, then the second, then taking a loan that was only recently paid off for the Stage 2 deposit, then selling the Stage 2 R-1, then putting down money I got from selling treasured assets to pay the difference for a Stage 3 Epic. I'VE GOT REAL SKIN (flesh) IN THE GAME, yet I do not begrudge Epic owner wannabees their possibility of getting to where I'm at. Those who lobby against the price decrease are anathema to me.

Was not directed toward you. Ill jump on the bandwagon tho. Am I upset about a price drop? I would say more worried then upset. I spent every dime I had to get my camera. I love this thing. There is nothing else out there like it. Even with these new Sony cameras coming out. I'm not even worried . They don't compare at All. It's just alot of money. I have not had my cam that long. Just hope it's not crazy .

 

[Elsie N]

And no one is lobbying anything...

Body Sputem! Obviously you have not been on Reduser the past few days. '-) (Said with all due respect, nothing personal, etc.)

 

[Elsie N]

Was not directed toward you. Ill jump on the bandwagon tho. Am I upset about a price drop? I would say more worried then upset. I spent every dime I had to get my camera. I love this thing. There is nothing else out there like it. Even with these new Sony cameras coming out. I'm not even worried . They don't compare at All. It's just alot of money. I have not had my cam that long. Just hope it's not crazy .

My experience has been that the longer you have it, the harder it becomes to part with it. '-)

 

[Jon Jones]

In order for there to be a lobbying position there must be the other side of that position. People might have the illusion that they are lobbying, but in reality they are just complaining, and there is no one in the other seat that is going to listen to them. Or they may listen but do nothing about it. This is about big business, which not one of us really knows much about. Jim and Jerrod are the best knowledge here in that realm. If they want to give the EPIC away and they make a post about it, do you really think that a bunch of us lackeys are going to sway them? There may be an illusion of lobbying but not anything real.

Body Sputem! Obviously you have not been on Reduser the past few days. '-) (Said with all due respect, nothing personal, etc.)

 

[oleg kaizerman]

what iam going to say its hiptetic and probably iam wrong but in the situation that right now
i was doing these
the epic brain goes for 17 500
these who have scarlat for full price wiii be able to upgrade to epic for 10000
these who bought for 50000 from red or bought epic in the last 6 months will get the dragon in the futur for free
all the rest will get it for 4 k
all the scarlat ouners will pay the full price
and the guys who will buy the epic and the new menzer module will get it for 28500
the half year owner for 10000
the 50000 usd users for 9000
all the rest for full price
the new price scarlet buyers will have 4 months time to convert to epic in the differences from new price + 1000 usd
all the red 1 mx owners will be able to convert to epic for 11000, the red 1 original for 13000
now think about that everyone win something and the cash flow become the money for better product then epic or f-65 or

maybe new factory of affordable red yachts

 

[Elsie N]

In order for there to be a lobbying position there must be the other side of that position. People might have the illusion that they are lobbying, but in reality they are just complaining, and there is no one in the other seat that is going to listen to them. Or they may listen but do nothing about it. This is about big business, which not one of us really knows much about. Jim and Jerrod are the best knowledge here in that realm. If they want to give the EPIC away and they make a post about it, do you really think that a bunch of us lackeys are going to sway them? There may be an illusion of lobbying but not anything real.

Again, you seem to think you are entitled to be the only one complaining. There is another side to the position. It is very frustrating that you cannot see both sides. It has been pointed out time and again in this thread that RED is probably not going to listen but those self-styled lobbyists (not you, you fall into the condescending category that is telling everyone how to behave) continue to lobby. Those lobbying efforts shall not go uncontested! (again, nothing personal, with all due respect etc. etc.)