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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Ever use the Proaim / Cinecity / DV city steadicam??

L

Luke Holwerda

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Hello Red people...

Just a quick one... Has any one ever used the cheapo Proaim / Cinecity / DV city steadicam... Glidecam... Flyer rigs?

I'm looking for an inexpensive alternative to hiring a steadicam operator... Or buying an $8k+ system... Just to use it for a few days.

Feel free to mock and snicker... But only if you can do so from personal experience. Links to bids would be a plus too.

Link to one cheap example... http://www.thecinecity.com/eshop/product.php?productid=3&cat=243&page=1

Thanks.
 
your better off, duct taping your camera to a broom and counter balancing with a few weights..

that thing is garbage..

plus steadicam isnt something you can just pick up and start doing..your footage will be trash.
 
Luke Holwerda said:
I'm looking for an inexpensive alternative to hiring a steadicam operator... Or buying an $8k+ system... Just to use it for a few days.
Click to expand...

I think you'd be better off hooking up with a novice operator with a Pilot/Flyer rig type rig. Depending on your project you might be able to cut a deal with him. If it's non budget he might appreciate the experience and getting footage on his reel.

If you have a budget, getting a "real" operator will do you good. Nailing a shot right off the bat, and repeating it over and over until you get the performance from your talent, is what an experienced operator will get you. And that's basically what you pay for. The equipment is just a small part of the equation....
 
A friend of mine who is official reseller bought one of it and asked me if this is good.
My opinion,
Proaim isn't a good choice. I cannot have well balanced it, at any time. The arm doesn't really respond as it should. And it's not smooth.
Low cost Merlin and Varizoom systems are certainly a better idea...
 
Well the guy in their pictures clearly doesn't have a clue how to hold a steadicam... Doesn't look very serious.
Plus, no monitor, how do you frame ?

Looks like a cheap copy of this one : http://www.laigleparis.fr/english-products.htm
...which already happens to be a cheap copy of a steadicam...

EDIT : Just watched the videos. The first one is just hilarious. What is this guy trying to demonstrate ?! Seriously, how can you build a steadicam without having even the slightest idea how to use it ?
I'd stay away from this system.
 
Glidecam x10 with hd4000 might work for you.
You can get used action-cam for 8k
 
Hire a steadicam operator. Who would be operating it otherwise? IMO its better off rethinking how to shoot rather than to use a someone who has not operated before. Its takes time to master and looks terrible when mishandled - especially for anything other than doco, which can be a little more forgiveable that drama.

Is it for mounting a RED?
 
Zakaree - Duct tape wont hold the weight of the Red. You sound pretty hostile, and I did ask for mockery, but only if you could speak from experience. Sam Raimi screwed his camera to a 2x4 for some shots in Evil Dead... if you're good, you can make anything happen.

Anders - Good advice. That might be something I look into. If we can find the right guy with the right attitude, willing to work with us... that could be the way to go.

Franck - Thanks for the info.

Shane - See my response to Zackaree, but thanks for playing.

Nils - Conjecture and personal dialog... thanks?

Kwan - Those names keep popping up in my research. Maybe used could be the way to go at this point in the game. Thanks.

Tim - It would be for a Red, yes. If we don't hire a steadicam operator, it would be me operating it. I agree there would be a learning curve... but you have to start somewhere.
 
Luke Holwerda said:
Nils - Conjecture and personal dialog... thanks?
Click to expand...
Well, it is indeed conjecture as I haven't used one of these, but what I said was meant seriously.

Most of the good steadicams have been made by guys who really know how to operate one. Steadicam, GPI, MKV, Actioncam to name a few... There is a reason to this. It may seem like an easy piece of gear, but there are a lot of small details that make huge differences when operating one. The machining has to be extremely precise if you want to be able to perfectly balance it (which is absolutely critical). It has to be as light as possible, but also very strong and without any vibrations. Same for the arm.
That's why I was pointing out the pictures and videos on their website, it just shows how little they actually know about operating a steadicam, which I find quite a bit concerning.
Buying a cheap steadicam because it looks like a real one is not a good idea. Trust me, I've been there (so yes, I'm speaking from personal experience).

Plus, as a few other people mentioned, you have to know how to operate one, which is far from easy and takes years to really master.
So you would probably be better of hiring a steadicam operator, or at least renting a reliable steadicam that fits the camera you're using (and taking a few days to at least learn the basics if you're new to this). And by the way, you didn't mention which camera that is... If it's a light camera, a pilot or flyer should work fine (Sachtler also make a nice little stabilizer I think). If it's a Red or something like that, you'll have to go with a bigger and more expensive model.

And by the way, the Flyer doesn't belong to the "cheapo" category. Regarding the Glidecams, it depends which model. The newer ones are not too bad from what I've heard.
 
It's a fools errand to try to do it your self. If you are not an experienced operator, you are better off hand held. There will be zero precision in your framing, and you'll be all over the place. Starting off with a low rent pos rig will only make it worse. Steadicam is a major commitment in time and money. I wouldn't expect to achieve any kind of semi professional results for several months (and that's assuming you are practicing 3 or 4 hours every day). I've been operating steadicam for more than 15 years, and thats my professional opinion.

Nick
 
Thanks Nils. Much more illuminating.

I do plan to fly the Red for this project. I'm in Phoenix, AZ... so finding an operator might not be as easy here, as it would in LA for example. (Rental gear too for that matter) But I will put the feelers out. I have a friend that runs the 5D on the flyer. We've been toying with the idea of using the 5D for some of the moving shots... but I don't want to comprimise the quality of the image because of a lack of gear. Budget is macro... but a lot of times favors and similar passions can go a long way.

I'll keep my eyes open.

And if our budget grows, I'll take a look at the higher end stuff. Thanks.
 
Nick - Actually, I did strap on a friend's Steadicam Flyer... he gave me a few pointers... and because I can grasp the general concept, and have a brain... I was doing ok after a few minutes. I had control over my framing, and I wasn't all over the place. It didn't feel like a fools errand at all.

Just because it takes one person 15 years to master something, doesn't mean it's that way for everyone.

Why do old people have to resort to bashing a noob with questions? Can't we just share our knowledge? I always thought guitarists were bad... but Jesus!
 
Luke, nobody's bashing anybody. You asked a question and I answered. I suspect you and I have different standards for what is acceptable. Basically you want some one to tell you that a cheap piece of shit rig is great, and you can operate just as well as Larry McConkey after 10 minutes. So here you go -

Gosh Luke! My buddy Steves mom used that cine city rig for her church groups play and it was totally awesome! Don't be a sucker and buy one of those over priced snob rigs like those idiot hollywood guys in unions use! You are going to be so happy with the cine city rig. I'll bet your movie wins Sundance!

See, THATS bashing.

Nick
 
Nick Gardner said:
Don't be a sucker and buy one of those over priced snob rigs like those idiot hollywood guys in unions use! You are going to be so happy with the cine city rig. I'll bet your movie wins Sundance!
Nick
Click to expand...

Reminds me of what people used to say (sarcastically) about the RED.
 
I knew you'd come around. Thanks for calling me old. If I'm officially an old timer, I am gonna go get my rifle and yell at kids to get off my lawn.

Nick
 
For anyone who is NOT a backwater, snobby prick... I've found a few videos of users with the Proaim stabilizer. I contacted one of the guys and asked about his actual personal experience with the equipment, (which was the original meaning of this post, not conjecture)... he said the thing worked basically "ok", until a part of it actually broke under the weight of a heavier camera. He eventually repaired it himself with stronger materials and had this to say about it:

"I have gotten some good footage out of it, but eventually I will get around to selling off the proaim, I guess it's good at least for a beginniner just getting to know the equipment, but not without modifications."

I looked on the manufactures website, and they do mention there have been some updates to the quality of construction... but I've decided against it personally. I think Saint Nick will be happy with my decision. But it's only because I plan to fly the Red on it. If it was for my 5D, I'd have already bought it. Bottom line is, you can't beat the price. And if you're an indie filmmaker, you know what I mean. I've built my own gear in the past for lack of money. I wouldn't be above trying something like this out.

Below are links to the aforementioned videos. The first is a "sizzle reel", using the Proaim rig, and a glidecam. The second is just the Proaim with 5D. The third is another noob's review.

http://vimeo.com/14306624

http://vimeo.com/14822971

http://vimeo.com/5447781

Hopefully this thread at least has a proper conclusion to it now, instead of the unhelpful rant of an ignorant person, who is uninformed on the topic of the post, and apparently unable to read. I thought forums were meant to HELP people? Hopefully I at least let in a little light myself to anyone who was actually taking this serious.
 
Well Luke my friend, you kind of proved my point. That footage looks like crap. Head room and horizon are all over the place. Like I said, we have different standards for what is good.

As a snobby prick, it's my duty to point out a couple of things.

The question was never could ANYONE get decent footage out of these crappy little rigs, it was can YOU get decent footage out of them. I'll give you my MK-V rig, and I'll take Zach's broom handle and duct tape rig and I'll quite literally run circles around you. Not because of the gear, but because I have hundreds of hours of experience.

A bad steadicam operator or a director that doesn't know how to design a decent steadicam shot are never going to make a brilliant shot. If you had asked specifics about how to get a moving dynamic camera move on an "Indie" budget, me or one of a dozen other people on this forum would have helped you (and still would). Wheel chair, furniture dolly, bungie rig, skateboard dolly etc. All better ways to get a shot then a guy who doesn't know what he's doing with a hunk of shitty indian pot metal. You seem mostly concerned with ignoring solid information from people with more experience than you because it isn't what you want to hear. In fact you go so far as to scour the internet to find footage that supports your view and ignore all the facts (Weren't you going to fly a Red? What do any of these rigs have to do with flying a Red?)

Finally, if you are going to insult me, please try a little harder. Backwater? You are the one who lives in the stixs. Ignorant? How do you figure? I think you are a little confused on your definitions. If you want to be specific, I would go with arrogant asshole, or self righteous douche bag, those you can back up. For the time being, you might want to stick with fuck head, it's general and multipurpose.

Cheers, good luck at Sundance,

Nick
 
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