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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic X vs Scarlet Dragon

J

jorge krausch

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Sincerely a tricky one if you're not too much into slow mos.. (although great for comedies spoofing slow motion scenes)
But does the Scarlet Dragon fair better in the final product than an EPIC X if you just plan to shoot at natural speeds?

(sincerely can the human eye feel a difference between 4k and 5k at a cinema?)

This of course assuming the human eye wont be getting any upgrades in future.
 
Thanks Neil, that makes sense. I heard some mention more grain too.. but the crop factor is a good point. it helps me decide. Thanks :)
 
weird the post from neil just vanished lol
 
I missed that you were talking about Dragon, sorry about that.

Comparing Dragon to Epic X is only possible for the folks at Red right now, since they haven't released any footage yet.

But presumably Dragon in the Scarlet will be the same as the sensor in the Epic, the only practical difference being the crops and frame rates. I don't expect anyone to be able to tell the difference between the cameras at the same settings, but the Epic has more choices.
 
Yes, Scarlet Dragon but compared to the Epic with the old Mysterium X..
 
5k is the sweet spot. It looks tremendously better on my 2560x1440 monitor since its scaled 50% down than 4k. I still can't decide if i should upgrade to sdragon or epic x. I'm slightly leaning towards the sdragon since i shoot a lot in low light and wuld benefit from the sensitivity boost. BUT i love shooting high speed, and thats where it gets tricky for me with the sdragon, since decent resolution only nets me 150fps. Also another factor is the $9500 gets you either a brand new camera or a sensor upgrade.
 
jorge krausch said:
Yes, Scarlet Dragon but compared to the Epic with the old Mysterium X..
Click to expand...

Scarlet Dragon at 5K will be visibly different from Epic X at 5K. For one thing, the physical size of the coverage area is different, even though the resolution might be the same. For another, they are different sensors so they will respond to light differently. I imagine they will have very similar aesthetics and it would be easy to mix footage from the two cameras without looking off, but they will have different purposes and different limitations.

So you have 5K 60fps cropped with probably-improved low light performance out of a camera that doesn't exist, compared to 5K 96fps uncropped decent low light performance out of a camera that you could get today.
 
I feel the only advantage to going EPIC-X is frame rates and that you can still upgrade to Dragon later on. Frame rates are a big deal. Lots of music videos and commercials want high frame rates. I'm still debating which path to take myself. I'm fine with 5K. If you are asking which would look sharper at 5K I would guess Epic might have a small advantage (probably not very noticeable unless you are really pixel peeping), but I think the lower noise floor and dynamic range and the ability to shoot at higher ISO's on the Scarlet Dragon will be worth a lot more than the apparent sharpness from both. I think that I will be very satisfied with 60 fps at 5K. 6K is really not a big deal for me. I doubt I would shoot 6K, even if I had it because of the workflow, I also doubt my clients will want it. I really like the low light sensitivity on the Dragon. That is a big deal. Night scenes, and being able to stop down further to prevent focus issues will be helpful, especially with handheld and steadicam work. I'm hoping that being able to shoot at ISO 2000 will make shooting in natural light a lot better.
 
Noel R. said:
I feel the only advantage to going EPIC-X is frame rates and that you can still upgrade to Dragon later on.
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Another advantage to going Epic is an uncropped s35 sensor, something you are not going to get with Scarlet Dragon AFAIK. Depending on the lenses you have, this might matter.
 
Neil Cronin said:
Another advantage to going Epic is an uncropped s35 sensor, something you are not going to get with Scarlet Dragon AFAIK. Depending on the lenses you have, this might matter.
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I believe Dragons sensor at 5K is pretty much S35, I think you meant Full Frame 35 which is nice but not really a motivational factor for myself. The majority of lenses will work on S35.
 
I did not mean "Full Frame 35", which would be closer to 70mm for cinema. And yes, I expect most lenses will "work" with Dragon 6K and MX 5K, 4K etc. But they will look very different.

Dragon sensor at 6K is slightly larger than s35, and ever so slightly physically larger than the MX sensor.

5K on an MX Epic (which is roughly the same sensor size as Dragon 6K), is more or less s35.

Motion captured on Dragon on Scarlet will be cropped to whatever "5K" will mean for that camera, just like it was for the MX Scarlet. Might be up to 80% crop, who knows.

The importance of this has more to do with the current lenses you have and the look you are going for. You're probably fine if you have a lot of zooms and don't care about bokeh as much. If you want the optics of a 24mm lens on 4 perf 35mm film, the Scarlet won't do that with your 24mm lens on either the Dragon or MX models.
 
Epic X is currently far better than Scarlet Dragon or any other kind of Dragon.

In fact, the current Scarlet is far better than Scarlet Dragon or any other kind of Dragon.

I'm sure the Dragons will be very capable, but they are a myth until they are ubiquitous. Ship the goods and we'll talk. ;)
 
5K on the MX is about the same as S35 4 perf full aperture. The Dragon's 5K is about the same size as S35 4 perf Academy, but I see where you are going.
 
Paul Schneider said:
Epic X is currently far better than Scarlet Dragon or any other kind of Dragon.

In fact, the current Scarlet is far better than Scarlet Dragon or any other kind of Dragon.

I'm sure the Dragons will be very capable, but they are a myth until they are ubiquitous. Ship the goods and we'll talk. ;)
Click to expand...

It is if you already own an Epic-X, but if you own a Scarlet the fork in the road we are facing is not a myth.
 
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